PWJ: S1E43 – AA – Joe Heschmeyer

Today I will be discussing theosis with Joe Heschmeyer from Holy Family School of Faith. He writes at Shameless Popery and is also on The Catholic Podcast. Earlier in the year, Joe came to San Diego and gave a presentation on the subject of theosis, so I invited him onto the podcast to help give us a clear Biblical basis for this doctrine which Lewis discussed at great length in Mere Christianity.

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Episode 43: After hours with Joseph Heschmeyer (Download)

Show Notes

• Joe introduced himself, explaining that he works for Holy Family School of Faith Institute. Before that, he was a seminarian and before that he was a lawyer in Washington DC. Joe and I first met in 2008.

• Joe shared a little bit about his Christian journey, explaining that he was raised in the Faith, but poorly formed. Fortunately, his RA in college was a strong Christian who was knowledgeable about the Faith and was able to answer Joe’s questions. Apologetics later helped Joe deepen his intellectual understanding. His conversion of heart came afterwards, as a result of reading Fr. Richard John Neuhaus’ book, Catholic Matters”, as well as a particular Mass at Woodbridge, Virginia. Lewis also had a part to play, when Joe read “Mere Christianity” in a Barnes & Noble store cafeteria!

• Earlier this year, Joe came to San Diego and gave a talk on theosis entitled, “That man may become god”.

• I commented that Lewis doesn’t spend too much time on the Scriptural basis for theosis, but Joe responded that Lewis does a better job of this in “The Weight of Glory” sermon. He strongly encouraged all the listeners to read it.

• Joe then began looking at the Scriptural evidence for theosis. He began by quoting St. John, where John explains that we are already God’s children, but some day we will become something even greater:

“See what love the Father has given us, that we should be called children of God, and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know Him. Beloved, we are God’s children now. It does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when He appears, we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is. And everyone who thus hopes in Him purifies himself as He is pure.” – 1 John 3:1-3

Joe explains that “theosis” is sometimes known as “glorification” or “divinization”

• Next, he looked at St. Paul’s letter to the Galatians:

“I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me, and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me ” – Galatians 2:20

It’s not that we become a rival deity to God, but that the life of God dwells in us. In order to distinguish theosis from the kind of “godhood” taught by Mormonism, Joe quoted from the Early Church Father, St. Athanasius:

“Though we are meant to earth we are called gods, not as the true God or His Word, but has pleased God who has given us that grace…” – St. Athanasius

• In his letter to the Romans, St. Paul once again describes this movement from divine filiation to theosis:

“For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of sonship when we cry ‘Abba! Father!’, it is the Spirit Himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God and, if children, then heirs. Heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with Him in order that we may also be glorified with Him. ” – Romans 8:14-17

• In the Epistle to the Hebrews we see that we are genuine participants and experience this glory along with Christ:

“But we see Jesus who, for a little while, was made lower than the angels, crowned with glory and honour because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone. For it was fitting that He, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering. For He who sanctifies knows who are sanctified have all one origin. This is why He is not afraid to call them ‘brethren’, saying ‘I will proclaim thy name to my brethren, in the midst of the congregation I will praise thee” – Hebrews 2:9-12

• We find the same teaching from St. Peter:

“His divine power has granted to us all things which pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who calls us to His own glory and excellence, by which He has granted to us His precious and very great promises, that through these you may escape from the corruption in the world through passion and become partakers of the Divine Nature” – 2 Peter 1:3-4

We made the point that many Christians wouldn’t really recognize this description of Christianity, and would more likely attribute this description to Paganism.

• Joe cites the commonly-quoted passage from Corinthians:

“Eye has not seen, ear has not heard what God has prepared for those who love Him” – 1 Corinthians 2:9

…but explains that what Paul is talking about here is theosis, which is described a couple of verses earlier:

“We impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glorification” – 1 Corinthians 2:7

This raised the question of our eternity. Joe pointed that it’s easy to vividly imagine Hell (thanks Dante!), but we find it harder to imagine Heaven. Joe referred to the immature imagery used by Billy Graham in the early years of his preaching.

• I compared the way the Saints reflect God’s grace and life to the way that the moon reflects the light of the sun.

• How should this understanding of theosis affect our understanding of our Christian journey of Faith? Joe said that it should raise us above “C- Catholicism”. Joe said this is a “weak, Diet Sprite Christianity”. This kind of Christianity basically asks the question: “How much sin can I get away with and still get into Heaven?”.

Understanding theosis helps us realise that holiness isn’t just about my own individual salvation, but something much deeper than that, it is about sharing in the life of Christ. Joe quoted Pope Francis’ recent apostolic exhortation:

“A Christian cannot think of his or her mission on earth without thinking of it as a path of holiness. ‘For this is the will of God, your sanctification’ [1 Thessalonians 4:3]. Each saint is a mission, planned by the Father, to reflect and embody, at a specific moment in history, a certain aspect of the Gospel. That mission has its fullest meaning in Christ and can only be understood through Him. At its core, holiness is experiencing in union with Christ, the mysteries of His life. It consists in uniting ourselves to the Lord’s death and Resurrection in a unique and personal way, constantly dying and rising with Him… Christ enables us to live in Him, all that He Himself lived and He lives it in us” – Gaudete et Exsultate, Paragraphs 19 and 20

• Theosis is also fundamental to our understanding Scripture. It’s not just written about the past, but the present. It’s not just good moral advice, but a description of how Christ is presently active in our lives. Joe alluded to a line from St. Jerome:

“Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ” – St. Jerome, Introduction to commentary on Isaiah

Joe expanded on this, saying that Jerome explains that this is the case because Scripture is the power God.

• I compared Joe’s comment comparing the hope of eternity in Heaven with the temporary happiness we receive due to sin to the entire plot of The Great Divorce, where people refuse Heaven because they want to bring a little bit of Hell in with them:

“You cannot take all luggage with you on all journeys;…If we insist on keeping Hell (or even Earth) we shall not see Heaven: if we accept Heaven we shall not be able to retain even the smallest and most intimate souvenirs of Hell.” – C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce (Preface)

This caused Joe to talk about the cost of discipleship and Jesus’ scary words, saying that we should be willing to give Him everything, or we shouldn’t even bother:

‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth’ – Revelation 3:15-16

Joe also alluded to the passages in the Gospel we had mentioned recently about planning for the cost of a building project or campaign of war (Luke 14:25-33).

• I commented on Lewis’ explanation of Jesus’ command to be “perfect”, that this is a promise by Christ that, if we let Him, He will rid us of all sin and transform us entirely.

Inspired by his own upcoming nuptials, Joe commented on the analogy used in Scripture of Bridegroom and Bride for Jesus and His Church. A total fidelity is needed, not simply partial fidelity.

• One of the subtopics which really struck people in Joe’s original talk here in San Diego was that of suffering. Joe explained that, if the Christian life is all about reproducing the mysteries of Christ’s life in our, those mysteries may sometimes be Sorrowful Mysteries. In the earlier passage from Romans 8 we are told that we will have to suffer with Christ. In the passage from Hebrews, Jesus comes to His glory through suffering, not so that we can avoid suffering, but that we would follow in His example.

Joe distinguished two types of suffering, stomach ache and birth pangs, the latter of which will ultimately give us great joy because it is bringing new life. He compared it to the incident with the lizard from The Great Divorce. I pointed out how, once the lizard had been killed, it was transformed into a stallion which the man used to ride into Heaven. Joe suggested that the joy and freedom we find in the lives of the Saints is one of the best arguments for holiness.

• Doesn’t all this talk make it sound like we’re the ones doing all the work, rather than God? Joe reviews the passages we’ve mentioned to show that while grace is the required, we can resist it. He gave the example of Charles Templeton who founded Billy Graham’s crusades, but ultimately fell away and died an atheist. The Scriptures also make it clear that we are free to fall away:

The Scriptures also make it clear that we are free to fall away:

“If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.  Of them the proverbs are true: ‘A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud’” – 2 Peter 2:20-22

• Lewis said that, while it might be possible to talk too much about our own glorification, we can’t talk too much about the glorification of our neighbour:

“It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses, to remember that the dullest most uninteresting person you can talk to may one day be a creature which,if you saw it now, you would be strongly tempted to worship, or else a horror and a corruption such as you now meet, if at all, only in a nightmare. All day long we are, in some degree helping each other to one or the other of these destinations. It is in the light of these overwhelming possibilities, it is with the awe and the circumspection proper to them, that we should conduct all of our dealings with one another, all friendships, all loves, all play, all politics. There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal. Nations, cultures, arts, civilizations – these are mortal, and their life is to ours as the life of a gnat. But it is immortals whom we joke with, work with, marry, snub, and exploit – immortal horrors or everlasting splendors… Next to the Blessed Sacrament itself, your neighbour is the holiest object presented to your senses. If he is your Christian neighbour he is holy in almost the same way, for in him also Christ vere latitat—the glorifier and the glorified, Glory Himself, is truly hidden.” – C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

Joe explained that if we miss this, we miss everything, even to the point where we miss the distinction between man and animals.