Category: Apologetics

Quick Apology: Why not go to the source?

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Today’s “Quick Apology” is a sequel to an earlier post, Quick Apology: You can’t pray to dead people. In that post I explained how those who have died in friendship with Christ are not “dead”, but are in fact more alive than we are. On Facebook, one of my friends responded with this question…

Objection

“But why would you want to pray to a Saint? Why not just go to the source, Christ?”

Response

This question is a reasonable one and makes sense until we consider everyday Christian practice…

When I meet up with my closest Christian friends, I will almost always ask them for their prayers concerning particular things going on in my life. However, if the above objection were valid, shouldn’t I being going directly to Christ? Why would I ask others to intercede for me when I could just instead make my requests to the Source directly?

To be certain, Christ has a special kind of mediation (1 Timothy 2:5), but that doesn’t preclude other kinds of mediation. In fact, we’re told in Scripture that we should intercede for each other (1 Timothy 2:1). So, the reasons why one would ask the Saints for their intercession are the same reasons why one would ask for the prayers of close friends. As my friend Steve said:

I’ve never seen a man in a true emergency when, for example, a car wreck requires emergency surgery for his young child, opt out of having others pray with him because he’d rather go straight to the Source.

It’s not an either/or proposition. Praying to the Lord directly is a good thing. Asking for the intercession of others is also a good thing. These two things don’t have to be in competition.

“We are taught by the Catholic faith that we may pray not only to God himself, but also to the Blessed in heaven, though in different manner; because we ask from God as from the Source of all good, but from the Saints as from intercessors” – Pope Leo XIII (Augustissimae Virginis Mariae 9)

So, back to the question: why would you want to pray to Saint? Well, when we are baptised, we become part of a very large family, a “great cloud of witnesses”, all united together in Christ. What do good families do? They pray for each other.

When we ask friends to pray for us, I think it’s safe to say that we particularly request intercession from those whom we esteem as being strong in faith since “the prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects” (James 5:16). Who is more righteous than those standing before the throne of God, those in “the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem…just men made perfect”?

Cloud of Witnesses

PS – I’ll endeavour to do a more thorough post in the future as to what mean when we speak of “prayer” to the Saints. Don’t let me forget…

PPS – Joe over at Shameless Popery also blogged about this topic yesterday. Go check it out 🙂

How do you honour Mary?

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When doing apologetics, I personally find it best to vary the approach I take. Every person is wired differently and a well-crafted explanation which would convince one person may completely fail with someone else.

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Often when Catholics and Protestants talk about Mary, they jump straight into the “big” topics: the Immaculate Conception, the Assumption, Intercession, the title “Mother of God” etc. However, I have often found it helpful to rewind the conversation when I see things moving in this direction. Instead of speaking about specific doctrines, I like to talk about Marian devotion at its most a basic level.

So, in today’s post I would like to present a dialogue between a Protestant (“Pete”) and a Catholic (“Catherine”), modeled on some conversations I’ve had where I have used this approach…

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Jesus Never Existed? Bart Ehrman Responds

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Several times over the last few weeks I’ve had conversations where friends have have seriously cast doubt over the very existence of Jesus of Nazareth, claiming that there’s no evidence that He’s even a real, historical figure.

You tend to hear stuff like this a lot on the Internet, but such claims are noticeably absent in respected academic scholarship. When I say “academic scholarship”, I’m not just referring to conservative Christian scholars either. I’m including liberal scholars, atheists, agnostics and those of other faiths. To demonstrate this, here’s an interview with Bart Erhman, who is an agnostic, former Christian, and a well-known figure in the area of Biblical criticism:

(I’ve moved the video start time past the pejorative preamble)

Catholic Answers recently produced an article in response in response to a recent article on Salon.com also on this subject.

Canon Dates

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Since I’m going to be discussing the question of the canon with some Jehovah Witnesses this weekend, I thought I’d post a few of the important dates which I often need to look up when talking about the setting of the canon of Scripture:

AD 170
The Muratorian fragment describes a New Testament canon which includes all of today’s books, with the exception of Hebrews, James, and 3rd John.

AD 180
Melito of Sardis provides a list of Old Testament books, including Wisdom but excluding Esther.

AD 367
Bishop Athanasius of Alexandria lists in his 39th Festal Letter the canon.  His Old Testament canon generally excludes the deutercanon, but includes Baruch and excludes Esther. He includes the entire New Testament canon.

AD 382
The Synod of Rome lists the 73 books of the Catholic Canon.

AD 393
The Council of Hippo lists the Catholic Canon. As with the other local councils, the pronouncements of the council were sent to Rome to be ratified by the Pope.

AD 397
The Council of Carthage confirms the pronouncements of Council of Hippo.

AD 405
Bishop of Toulouse requests a list of all the books of Scripture from the Bishop of Rome. Pope Innocent I sends him the list of 73.

Jerome completes the Latin Vulgate translation of the Bible.

AD 419
The Second Council of Carthage confirms the Catholic canon.

AD 1441
The Council of Florence also lists the 73 book canon.

AD 1563
The Council of Trent also lists the current day Catholic canon.

r_seaman@hotmail.com

For a detailed list of books used in the Early Church, please check out this post from Shameless Popery.

When Jehovah Witnesses come to call…

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I have two Jehovah Witnesses (JW) coming to see me this weekend…

early_watch_tower_cover

Knock, knock…

You see, two JWs turned up at my door about a month ago. They asked about religion so I told them a little bit about my faith journey. I explained how the issue of the canon (the Bible’s table of contents) was one of the decisive topics which brought about my return to Catholicism. 

How did they know that the table of contents was correct, I asked. I knew the various standard Protestant answers to this question and found them all unconvincing, but I wondered how a JW would answer it. The two missionaries at my door said they couldn’t answer that question, but they’d go find out and get back to me.

(This was, by the way, an excellent answer. When someone asks you a question and you don’t know the answer, it’s far better to say you don’t know, rather than trying to make something up on the spot. Just make sure that you do actually find out the answer and come back)

Well, this last Saturday I had two older chaps turn up at my door. I invited them in but they didn’t want to and instead booked an appointment with me for this weekend. I’m currently looking to find an icon of St. Nicholas to put up in time for their visit 😉

(There was a legend that St. Nicholas punched Arias in the face at the Council of Nicaea for denying the full deity of Christ, a doctrine also affirmed by JWs)

“But I’m no theology expert…”

I didn’t want to end this post without briefly mentioning something else on the subject of JWs. Not all Catholics will feel comfortable meeting with JWs and discussing theology, and others might just simply don’t have the time. However, I would like to share something that a friend of mine does when JWs call. She simply says the following:

glass-of-water“It’s really great that you care so much about your faith that you’re willing to give up your Saturday mornings to do this, but I should probably tell you I’m Catholic. In fact, I’m reeeeally Catholic, so I think I’d probably just be a waste of your time. 

It’s pretty hot outside today though, so would you like to take a chilled bottle of water to take with you?”

So, if you have to go pick up the kids for soccer practice or you’re busy getting brunch together and don’t have the time, I think this is a great response to give. It’s simple, it takes a grand total of thirty seconds to say and demonstrates concretely the love of Christ to those who love God enough to face rejection and abuse from strangers every week.

For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you bear the name of Christ, will by no means lose his reward. – Mark 9:41

Quick Apology: You can’t pray to dead people

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Continuing in my series of brief apologetic responses, today I would like to look at the subject of Saintly intercession. As I mentioned last time, these will not be thorough, nuanced rebuttals, but simply how I typically would reply when I only have a brief window of opportunity to respond to objections to my Faith.

Objection

I often see on internet forums the following common objection to Saintly intercession:

“You can’t pray to dead people”

Response

In response to this objection I point out that the Saints are not dead:

“…have you not read what was said to you by God, ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.” – Matthew 22:32

If Jesus says that the Saints (“Abraham…Isaac….Jacob”) are alive and well, then I think it’s pretty safe to assume that they are indeed alive. Last week we had the Feast of the Transfiguration when Jesus speaks with Moses…a “dead” man (Matthew 17:1-4). Therefore, it is incorrect to call those Christians who have passed away “dead”. They are more alive in God than they have ever been!

Abraham-Isaac-and-Jacob-610x350

Quick Apology: You don’t believe in Thor, do you?

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Up until now, all of the “Quick Apology” posts have dealt with Catholic-Protestant disputes. Today I would like to address a Theist-Atheist issue. I wrote this post several weeks ago, but I heard this specific objection was just a few days ago…

Objection

Probably as a result of the writings of the “New Atheists”, I’ve heard with increasing regularity the statement:

“You don’t believe in Thor do you? You’re almost an atheist – I just believe in one less god than you”

Response

The suggestion here is that Christians are, in fact, basically atheists since they don’t believe in the gods of other religions. The atheist is just like the Christian except that she rejects the Christian God as well.

There’s the suggestion that, since Thor doesn’t exist, then neither does the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. However, this doesn’t really follow, does it? After all, does the existence of counterfeit money mean that real money doesn’t exist? I hope not, otherwise I’ve worked 40 hours this week for nothing! Does the existence of counterfeit love mean that real love doesn’t exist? The recently dumped may think so, but I think generally we can agree that counterfeit love doesn’t disprove real love.

So, in conclusion, the non-existence of Thor has no bearing on the existence of Yahweh. The evidence for each must be weighed independently…

Thor-the-Dark-World

captain-american-one-god

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