Does the wailing wall prove Jesus wrong?
Today I’d like to address an objection to Christianity which you hear every now and again:
“Jesus prophesied that the Jerusalem Temple would be completely destroyed. However, the “Wailing Wall” is still standing, proving him wrong. Jesus is therefore a failed prophet and therefore can’t be God”
Jews praying in front of The Wailing Wall, Jerusalem
Background
This objection is based upon an episode in Matthew’s Gospel. Jesus and His disciples had been visiting Jerusalem and the disciples were marveling at the beautiful Temple found there. In response to this, Jesus predicts the destruction of the Temple, saying that “One stone shall not remain upon another”.
Later on the Mount of Olives, the Lord gives more detail concerning this prophecy, saying that the destruction will take place “within this generation”, Biblical code meaning within forty years. Jesus said these words in around AD 33 and, about forty years later the Jerusalem Temple was destroyed. His prophecy came true – a rather impressive feat!
The Problem & Answer
So, what’s the problem? Well, someone might point to “The Wailing Wall” in Jerusalem as evidence that one stone does, in fact, upon another. It is therefore argued that Jesus’ prophecy was wrong, thus discrediting not only His claim to divinity, but also His prophethood.
In answer to this, we must first point out that Jesus predicted the Temple’s destruction and He was spot on. To complain about the presence of the Wailing Wall is to demand a rather pedantic, literalistic fulfillment of that prophesy. That’s seems rather unreasonable to me.
However, we must also ask: what actually is the Wailing Wall? What is it? They’re not stones from the actual Temple itself. The Wailing Wall is the retaining wall which was built by King Herod the Great. I’ve been told that if you visit Jerusalem this is obvious, since the Dome of the Rock is found far above the wailing wall. Therefore, even if we were to demand an absolute, to the letter, literalistic fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy, we should still be satisfied. After all, if I were to predict that my house would be destroyed, not one stone left upon another, and you found the foundation remained, would you really call me a false prophet?
On a related note, did you know that there were later attempts to rebuild the Temple by Julian the Apostate? Find out what happened by clicking here…
The so called wailing wall is part of Fort Antonia, not the temple.
Jesus also said that “very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing (raising the dead, healing the sick and various other miracles), and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.”
Obviously this is wrong because never in the history of the modern world has there been one miracle proven.
Marybelle, welcome to Restless Pilgrim!
I would argue that John is constructing the narrative here to point to this promise’s fulfillment in the Church’s Sacraments which bring about supernatural (rather than simply natural) healing. However, since your comment seems to be directed towards the idea of miracles, I’d like to mention a couple of issues I see in your comment that…
Firstly, you’re taking issue with a promise that is given in a book which speaks of the supernatural. Why do you trust Jesus’ words if you’re automatically going to discount his deeds as impossible?
Secondly, in what way would a miracle be “proven”? One doesn’t have to look very far for cases of people who have had spontaneous recovery from diseases which cannot be explained by science. If a medical professional cannot explain it on the basis of their expertise, would you consider that proof? When a Saint is canonized in the Catholic Church, there must be a miracle associated with it. Have you looked into any of these cases?
Thanks,
David.
Until now, most people don’t understand the very role of the messiah. Was he anointed to make miracles? heals the sick? raise the dead? etc? Are we not out of the context that by reading the writings of the prophets, nobody is talking that the messiah will do these things. One big reason why Jews do not accept Jesus because he failed to do any, not one of the prophecies. If he is the son of God, why we don’t have any account of his life since he was 12 until he reached the age of 30? Then he died at 33! I thought Jesus was very important that he’s not lost with his very mandate to save mankind but WASTED 18 years doing carpentry? He was a failure man-made persona whom christians made divine and made as their savior. What a waste of time.
That is incorrect. Luke 7:22 provides one such example where Jesus describes his ministry in terms which were foretold: “…the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have good news preached to them.” (see Isaiah 29:18; Isaiah 35:5–6; …)
That’s quite a claim. In the face of counter evidence, can that claim be substantiated?
That sounds like a false assumption to me. Why would we except this?
This speaks to your assumptions about work and time. Jesus’ years working as a carpenter tells us that work has inherent dignity and regarding time, one might argue why God “wasted” time not sending the Messiah immediately. God’s timing is perfect:
“But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons” – Galatians 4:4-5
There were many failed Messiahs before and after, yet no Jews other than the followers of Jesus ever claimed that He was raised from the dead. Why?
Jesus was referring to the end times what to watch for His coming. Jesus is not a liar! The Devil is!
Keep your eyes on the wall and on Jesus!
Praying for your eyes to be opened.
While I agree that it points forward to the end-of-the world, I don’t think it can be avoided that Jesus spoke this words directly in reference to the Temple which was destroyed forty years later:
You will find miracles documented by medics many of whom will record ‘healed by God” when they can find no other explanation eg. something on an X ray has disappeared. A common term used by or used to be used by insurers to describe a disastrous event “act of God”. Of course now we have climate change and its cause often designated of man’s abuse if the environment perhaps many incidents , although not all will be traced back to their real source.
What is your definition of a miracle? Could it be said that the miraculous happens in any situation that occurs outside three, five, or yet seven sigma from the mean? There are many such examples of situations that fit this model.
Then how do you explain Lazerus? He was dead! How about the blind seeing, the lame walking, the mute speaking, the deaf hearing? Are those not miracles?
“After all, if I were to predict that my house would be destroyed, not one stone left upon another, and you found the foundation remained, would you really call me a false prophet?”
If your foundation consists of stones stacked one on top of another, YES.
Then I’d say you’d be taking those words to a level of literalism that you wouldn’t use in other situations. It would also be nitpicking to a very high degree, particularly in the face of the momentous event which I foretold.
14 Afterward he was revealed to the eleven themselves as they sat at the table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they didn’t believe those who had seen him after he had risen. 15 He said to them, “Go into all the world, and preach the Good News to the whole creation. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who disbelieves will be condemned. 17 THESE SIGNS WILL ACCOMPANY THOSE WHO BELIEVE: in my name THEY will cast out demons; THEY will speak with new languages; 18 THEY will take up serpents; and if THEY drink any deadly thing, it will in no way hurt THEM; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
19 So then the Lord, after he had spoken to them, was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God. 20 They went out, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and CONFIRMING THE WORD BY THE SIGNS THAT FOLLOWED. Amen.
Simply put, Jesus himself specifically listed the SIGNS that would “accompany THOSE WHO BELIEVE.” This proclamation by Jesus is not limited to the twelve, but to THOSE who are “baptized” and “believe.” The writer of Mark goes even further by stating unequivocally that what Jesus said came to pass and was “confirmed” by the “signs that followed” “THOSE WHO BELIEVED.”
The problem for Christians is that there is not one person who has been baptized and believes who can perform any one of the miracles listed by Jesus.
The Gospels are vague stories passed down for generations and written by men who didn’t even live in the region where Jesus lived and spoke and wrote in Greek – not the Aramaic language of Jesus and his 12 disciples. In fact, by the time the gospels were written there was no one performing any of the miracles listed by Jesus.
Hey Neil, welcome to Restless Pilgrim!
Your comment doesn’t relate to this post at all, but I see you essential argument against Christianity relates to Jesus’ words about His own followers. Do you not think miracles happen today? That’s the very basis of anyone being canonized in the Catholic Church.
Additionally, if we read *the whole* of Scripture and don’t just isolate a couple of verses, we see that not strictly *everyone* will have the gift of miracles. Some of us have far more down-to-earth gifts. However, miracles do still happen.
I’m interested to know where you’re getting your information about the Gospels. There is solid evidence that they were written down within the generation and show clear signs of eye-witness testimony. What books have you read on the subject?
Greek was the lingua franca of the Empire, so knowledge of Greek was common. If you wanted to get a message out for wide distribution today, what language would you use? You would put it in English because that has the greatest reach… This is why the Gospel of Matthew was translated early on from Aramaic (c.f. Irenaeus of Lyons).
On what are you basing this? There are a long line of miracles, from the Early Church to today.
I was a christian for over 50 years and never witnesses anyone being healed by another baptized believer laying on hands and praying for them. Every person and family member with cancer died from that cancer after prayer and laying on of hands. The ones that recovered and lived any length of time went into remission as a result of chemo and radiation treatments – not some spiritual anointing. If you take Jesus at his word in the passage I put forth, he clearly states that “These signs (miracles) will accompany THOSE who believe.” Please don’t try and twist what Jesus said by saying only “some” people have the “gift” of healing. In fact, Jesus doesn’t even address the signs as any kind of gift. He addresses the signs (miracles) as something that would “accompany” those who believe and the writer of Mark states further that these signs acted as “confirmation” of the “words” that Jesus said and that the people taught.
There is no evidence, other than from Catholic scholars with an agenda to legitimatize the writings, that the 4 gospels were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke or John. These persons/names were assigned as the authors sometime in the late third century. The gospels were most probably written by educated men who knew and wrote Greek and most probably didn’t even live in the region Jesus and his followers were from. Jesus’ followers were uneducated laborers who probably spoke Aramaic and did not know Greek – especially well enough to write is such a proficient way as the gospels were written. It should also be noted here that Paul only wrote 7 of the 13 letters ascribed to him. The others were written by men who wanted their readers to believe Paul was the author. Those men are called liars and those letters are called forgeries. The same goes for 1 & 2 Peter – especially 2 Peter.
You are correct in assuming that I base much of my criticism on Jesus’ words – ALL of them. If I can’t be certain that what is in the NT attributed to him then that’s a big problem.
As for there still being miracles today, can you tell me when you have ever seen a limb restored? How about polio cured? What about paralysis removed? And why aren’t believers who have those “gifts” not going to hospitals to cure terminal patients?
I know your answer to all my questions and concerns, but they are simply silly notions of double-think. If someone isn’t healed when prayed over and hands laid on then you chalk it up to God’s “will.” I know, it’s all a part of God’s plan and we can’t fathom how it works. Well if that’s the case then I guess the millions of murdered babies is a part of God’s plan and the 25,000 kids under 5 years old who die of starvation and curable circumstances every day is a part of God’s plan.
The next time you chalk some trivial matter like meeting someone you knew before that helped you in some way or found your car keys or your got a raise at work to it being a “God thing;” remember that all the really horrible things that are happening in the world today are also a “God thing.”
And when you tell someone that you are “blessed” by God because of a particular situation, then ask yourself if those 25,000 kids who will die today think they are “blessed” by that same God.
BTW – I used to be a preacher and I have read and studied extensively about the Bible and the history around it. I recommend reading Dr. Bart Ehrman’s many books. He’ll even dialog with you on his blog. https://ehrmanblog.org/
But you agree that this doesn’t necessarily mean that miracles never happen, yes?
Why not? That’s the teaching of St. Paul. We don’t see everyone performing miracles in Acts of the Apostles. Why that verse absolute?
I’m afraid I’m not entirely sure why you’re suddenly talking about the authenticity of the Gospels. I’m also not sure what it means to “legitimize the writings”.
Do you have evidence to back this up? As far as I know, all manuscripts we have are complete with the traditional attestation, which is something we wouldn’t expect if this was decided several centuries after authorship.
Also, doesn’t Irenaeus attest to the four-fold Gospel in the Second Century?
Given that the texts themselves are written in Greek, it’s only reasonable to assume that the men who wrote them knew Greek. But isn’t it possible that, like much of the correspondence of the age, the text was dictated secretaries?
I’d also point out that Mark’s Greek is pretty basic and I don’t think it’s completely outside of the realms of possibility that some of the Evangelists knew some Greek, particularly following Alexander’s conquests and Hellenization.
I would be interested to know on what basis you think the authors didn’t live in the Holy Land(?).
That’s a very bold statement. Some of his corpus is disputed by scholars, certainly. I wouldn’t come close to being brave enough to assert that six letters were definitely not written by Paul.
I don’t think this entirely reflects the First Century attitude of writing a letter in someone else’s name, such as when a disciple writes with the authority of his master.
What makes you doubt them?
I’m sorry to hear that. My own father died of Cancer.
You would agree ultimately every prayer for healing has to fail at some point though, right? Otherwise no Christian would ever die.
I haven’t seen those things with my own eyes. I have close friends who have seen the miraculous. Should I distrust their testimony?
I often hear atheists demand the restoration of a limb. I think they choose this miracle because it’s creating something from nothing, which is strange, because we have an entire Universe which popped into existence from nothing, which seems to me far more impressive. In fact, I’d suggest that the greatest miracle in the Bible isn’t in the Gospels, but in Genesis 1:1.
As for why these people aren’t going to hospitals, I would suggest that part of the answer is that the Biblical pattern suggests that faith on the part of the recipient is also required (Mark 6:5). It therefore makes sense to organize them around Church events. For example, I met this guy when I was still living in England.
You seem to have blurred from talking about miracles to talking about the Problem of Pain. In response to that, I’d raise the usual arguments. Christianity doesn’t even claim that we live in a world free from evil and pain, much of which we inflict upon ourselves and each other. More fundamentally though, the atheist has no real basis on which to complain about it. To quote C.S. Lewis:
My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such violent reaction against it? A man feels wet when he falls into water, because man is not a water animal: a fish would not feel wet.
Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too- for the argument depended on saying that the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my private fancies. Thus in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist-in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless-I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality-namely my idea of justice-was full of sense.
– Mere Christianity, Book II, Chapter 1
You imply that I do.
I’m very familiar with Dr. Ehrman’s work.
Out of interest, to what denomination did you belong? Where did you go to seminary?
Just to follow-up on my reply:
19 So then the Lord, after he had spoken to them, was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God. 20 They went out, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and CONFIRMING THE WORD BY THE SIGNS THAT FOLLOWED. Amen.
It is contextually clear that the signs (miracles) Jesus said would accompany all who believe and are baptized were meant explicitly to be “signs” to “confirm” among any who witness them that Jesus is the true Messiah. The writer of Mark makes this very clear.
Jesus used signs to validate and confirm his message and who he was. It stands to reason that Jesus would pass-on this ability to perform miracles to confirm and validate the truth of his message to future generations.
37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, BELIEVE THE WORKS, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” (John 10)
11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or AT LEAST BELIEVE ON THE EVIDENCE OF THE WORKS THEMSELVES. 12 Very truly I tell you, WHOEVER BELIEVES IN ME WILL DO THE WORKS I HAVE BEEN DOING, and THEY WILL DO EVEN GREATER THINGS THAN THESE, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ASK ME FOR ANYTHING IN MY NAME, AND I WILL DO IT. (John 11)
How much more clear does Jesus have to be than in these two passages from the gospel of John?
Let’s break it down for clarity.
1. Jesus taught a message of repentance, forgiveness and eternal life.
2. Jesus performed miracles.
3. Jesus understood that people would have a hard time believing who he said he was and what he taught.
4. Jesus told his followers that he understood their doubt regarding his message and who he was.
5. Jesus backed-up his message with miracles.
5. Jesus understood that in his absence people would doubt the same message taught by his followers.
6. Jesus told those followers that they would be able to back-up the gospel message with miracles.
7. The gospel of Mark verifies that Jesus’ followers who were baptized and believed did perform miracles.
8. There is no evidence today that this is happening to the degree Jesus said it would.
Take a paralytic person to your church this Sunday and see if you can find any baptized believer that can heal them and confirm the words of Jesus preached at that church. Heck, take them to several different churches every Sunday for the next year and see if any baptized believer can heal them and confirm the words of Jesus they preach.
I am not mocking your God and I am not testing your God; I am simply doubting the gospel message and would like confirmation that it is the truth.
It seems to me that your issue is that you expect miracles would be an everyday occurrence for Christians. Would occasional miracles be enough for you?
Which miracles have you investigated and concluded are bogus?
Neil the miracles were for the Apostles and ceased at Pentecost. Some Pentecostal Churches still believe in them today but I do not. Jesus Christ is you’re savior preacher. Repent and come back to the Lord.
Hey Frank, I don’t know how you can say that miracles ceased at Pentecost. There are multiple miracles recorded in the Acts of the Apostles after Pentecost. For example, in the very next chapter, Peter heals a crippled beggar (Acts 3).
But the temple was destroyed.
The wall was a retaining wall not part of the actual Temple, so the premise that Jesus cannot be God is incorrect.
(copied and pasted from an article)
Why Jesus Is Not The Jewish Messiah
Christian missionaries, like Jews for Jesus, profess that Jesus is the Jewish messiah. Why has Judaism rejected this claim for 2,000 years? The concept of the Messiah has its foundation in our Jewish Bible, the Tanach, which teaches that all of the following criteria must be fulfilled before any person can be acknowledged as the Messiah:
1.The Messiah must be from the Tribe of Judah and a Descendant of King David AND King Solomon. The Messiah must be a member of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10) and a direct descendant of King David & King Solomon (2 Samuel 7:12-14; 1 Chronicles 22:9-10). Genealogy in the Bible is only passed down from father to son (Numbers 1:1-18). There is no evidence that Jesus really had this pedigree, and the Christian Bible actually claims that he did not have a “birth-father” from the tribe of Judah descending from King David and King Solomon (Matt. 1:18-20).
2.Ingathering of the Jewish Exiles. When the Messiah is reigning as King of Israel, the Jews will be ingathered from their exile and will return to Israel, their homeland (Deut. 30:3; Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 30:3, 32:37; Ezekiel 11:17, 36:24). This has clearly not yet happened and we still await its fulfillment.
3.Rebuilding of the Holy Temple. The Temple in Jerusalem will be rebuilt (Isaiah 2:2-3, 56:6-7, 60:7, 66:20; Ezekiel 37:26–27; Malachi 3:4; Zech. 14:20-21). The Temple was still standing in Jesus’ day. It was destroyed 38 years after Jesus’ crucifixion and it has not yet been rebuilt.
4.Worldwide Reign of Peace. There will be universal disarmament and worldwide peace with a complete end to war (Micah 4:1-4; Hoseah 2:20; Isaiah 2:1-4, 60:18). Wars have increased dramatically in the world since the start of Christianity.
5.Observance of the Torah Embraced by All Jews. The Messiah will reign as King at a time when all the Jewish people will observe G-d’s commandments (Ezekiel 37:24; Deut. 30:8,10; Jeremiah 31:32; Ezekiel 11:19-20, 36:26-27). Jesus never ruled as King, nor have all Jews embraced the commandments of G-d’s Torah.
6.Universal Knowledge of G-d. The Messiah will rule at a time when all the people of the world will come to acknowledge and serve the one true G-d (Zechariah 3:9, 8:23,14:9,16; Isaiah 45:23, 66:23; Jeremiah 31:33; Ezekiel 38:23; Psalm 86:9; Zeph. 3:9). This, as well, has not yet taken place and we await its fulfillment.
7.A Biblical Portrait of the Messiah. All of these criteria for the Messiah are found in numerous places in the Jewish Bible. One foundational example is in the book of Ezekiel, Chapter 37:24-28: “24 And My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd, and they will walk in My ordinances, and keep My statutes, and observe them 25 and they shall live on the land that I gave to Jacob My servant, in which your fathers have lived; and they shall live there, they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever; and My servant David will be their prince for ever. 26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant, which I will give them; and I will multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever 27 and My tabernacle shall be with them, and I will be their God and they will be My people. 28 And the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever.” Anyone can claim to be the Messiah or a group of people can claim that someone is the Messiah. However, if that person fails to fulfill all the criteria found in the Jewish Bible, he cannot be the Messiah. According to the Christian scriptures, Jesus seems to have understood this. As he was being crucified by the Romans, he cried out “My G-d, my G-d, why have You forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46). The Christian Rebuttal In order to deal with Jesus’ failure to fulfill the Biblical messianic prophecies, missionaries argue that he will accomplish them when he returns in the future. It’s important to understand that this second coming doctrine is an admission that Jesus didn’t fulfil the Messianic criteria. This rationalization for his failure certainly provides no reason to accept him as the Messiah today. Furthermore, the Jewish Bible does not have a Messianic “installment plan” where Messiah comes, fails in his mission, and then returns thousands of years later to finally succeed. Missionaries will claim that because Jesus performed miracles, he must be the Messiah. However, we have no real evidence that Jesus actually performed any miracles. More significantly, even if Jesus did perform miracles, they would not prove that he was the Messiah. Our Bible never says that we will be able to recognize the Messiah through the miracles that he will do. The Torah actually teaches that even false prophets can have the ability to perform supernatural miracles (Deut. 13:2-6). The Real Messiah We Jews prefer to wait for the “real thing” according to G-d’s promises and guidelines. The Jewish Bible provides a clear and consistent description of what the world will look like when the Messiah comes and this has clearly not yet transpired. So, we still await the coming of the true Messiah. May he and a utopian world come soon!
In future, please don’t just copy and paste large chunks of an article – simple share a link.
Judaism hasn’t “rejected this claim for 2,000 years”. Certain Judaisms have. Some became Christians, some were wiped out at the Fall of Jerusalem, others rejected the Christian claims.
This is a claim which simply dismisses the Biblical witness. Someone could dismiss the witness of the Hebrew Scriptures and then claim that there’s “no evidence” for the genealogies described there.
Adopted sons had the full rights as sons.
These are gathered through the conversion of the gentiles since these lost tribes are now part of “the nations”.
This assumes a literalistic fulfilment, rather than the building of the Church on Earth and the conversion of the gentiles to the God of Abaraham.
Something which Jesus predicted…
Another unsubstantiated claim. We actually live in a era of previously unknown peace worldwide. This will culminate in Jesus’ Second Coming when peace will truly be established.
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