Catholic Dating: Analysis Paralysis
This post will be a little longer than usual. Today I will be closing the series by offering some final thoughts on some of the issues I see within the Catholic dating world.
Why is it that there don’t seem to be many Catholic couples dating and, by extension, why is the number of couples receiving the Sacrament of Matrimony plummeting?
As I’ve mentioned before, there are many different, complicated explanations as to why this is so, but today I would like to focus on the subject of analysis paralysis, as well as our attitude towards dating and courtship.
“Why so serious?!”
A guy who takes his faith seriously and who is seeking to live an authentic Christian life which exemplifies the virtue of chastity is likely to take dating extremely seriously. He will not embark upon it lightly, and he will give serious thought to a date’s suitability as a potential wife. As the Bible suggests, such a woman is not always easy to find… 😉
Who can find a good wife? She is worth more than rubies… – Proverbs 31:10
A very similar dynamic may be found among many of the ladies of my acquaintance. They take dating very seriously and consider carefully any romantic advances which come their way.
The Perfect Woman
Such seriousness is good and admirable. However, there is a distinct danger of a phenomenon known as “analysis paralysis”. In the case of dating, this is when a guy so deeply analyzes potential dates ahead of time that he inevitably finds some fault with each and every candidate in his perpetual search for the “perfect” woman.
“One woman is fair, yet I am well; another is wise, yet I am well;
another virtuous, yet I am well; but till all graces be in one woman,
one woman shall not come in my grace!”
– Benedick, A Much Ado About Nothing
By placing each potential date under such scrutiny, the guy will always find some reason or other not to date her. To make matters worse, he’s often making these decisions from a position of relative ignorance of the lady in question.
The Perfect Man
I would propose that the ladies can possibly suffer from something similar, overthinking things somewhat. Maybe I’m wrong here, but sometimes I get the impression that some girls will not accept an invitation for a date unless the person asking her is a combination of Brad Pitt and Jesus, all rolled into one. Like the “perfect” woman, this is an unrealistic expectation!
“[I shall not marry] …till God make men of some other metal than earth”
– Beatrice, A Much Ado About Nothing
I remember one time when a female friend of mine told me that she was rather concerned about a certain guy in our group. She said that she thought he was interested in her romantically and that he would probably soon ask her out. I was rather shocked by her horror at this possibility! The gentleman in question was, in my own opinion, an extremely excellent man. She should be so lucky! What’s more, his good qualities stood out all the more when contrasted with some of the rather suspect guys I knew she had recently dated. 🙁
It is common to hear men castigated for their shallowness and their propensity to find fault with women, but does something similar also happen on the other side of the gender divide?
Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth?
My posts in this series have been based upon some underlying assumptions and, although it’s overdue, I should perhaps pause the discussion for a moment and briefly articulate them. I have been assuming my own “model” of dating here. In particular, I have assumed certain meanings behind certain words.
The understanding of the words “dating” and “courtship” can vary quite considerably between different people. For example, I think most of us are well acquainted with the world’s understanding of such terms. In the secular world, “courtship” is an arcane term used to describe something our grandparents did when they were young. When it comes to “dating”, the world gives it no specific meaning or boundaries, instead using it to describe anything from a casual cup of coffee to sexual intimacy.
Sigh no more, ladies, sigh no more, Men were deceivers ever,
One foot in sea and one on shore, To one thing constant never
– Balthasar, Much Ado About Nothing
In my model, “dating” describes the process through which a guy and girl get to know one another better. It is casual, non-physical and non-exclusive. Large group settings are a great place to begin getting to know someone, but this has its limitations and isn’t always possible, hence the need for dating. At a later point, the friendship transitions from “dating” to “courtship”. This may happen after the couple has spoken together about moving forward, but certainly once there’s physical intimacy such as the first kiss. The relationship now becomes exclusive and the couple begin to consider more seriously whether they are called together in the vocation of marriage.
By my troth, my lord, I cannot tell what to think of it but that she loves him with an enraged affection: it is past the infinite of thought!
– Leonato, Much Ado About Nothing
However, “my” model is not the only one out there. Some Catholics will, in good faith, disagree with my definitions, as well as with the process I described above. That’s okay! We are not all identical. We don’t all have the same strengths, weakness, tendencies or histories. Therefore, I can very much understand that some people would benefit from a different style of dating/courtship.
For example, some people would pretty much discard the term “dating” altogether, dismissing it as a secular concept. Instead, they would affirm that a guy and a girl should only get to know one another in exclusively group settings. If the guy would like to pursue a lady, then he must request the permission of the lady’s father or priest. At this point the couple would enter into “courtship” and a period of intense marriage discernment.
“In mine eye she is the sweetest lady that ever I looked on”
– Claudio, Much Ado About Nothing
Why am I saying this? I am talking about this because I think that we very often get our wires crossed because we use the same words but with different understanding of what those words mean, and this causes us all kinds of grief. It is dangerous to assume that everyone will have the same understanding of dating as yourself, which brings us back to that troublesome issue of communication again!
I would suggest that, if you have certain expectations as to how you would like to date or be dated, then it’s good to communicate these expectations clearly up front (or just write a blog series about it ;-)).
So, with this said, let’s return to the main topic of this post…
A culture of dancing
I have taught partner dancing for some time, mainly salsa and swing. When I teach, I always remind the ladies that when a guy invites her to dance, it’s just that, an invitation to dance. It is not to a proposal of marriage, nor is it an invitation to start picking out throw pillows and cushions for their future house together! I suggest, therefore, that the lady graciously accept any kind invitations to dance.
I labour this point for a very practical reason. If a guy asks a girl to dance and it’s generally expected that she’ll say “yes”, then more guys will ask girls to dance. The danger of rejection and humiliation has been reduced! As a result, more people will get out on the dancefloor and enjoy themselves. The evening of dancing will be light-hearted and drama will be kept to a minimum.
Because “Having a date” doesn’t mean “Setting a date”…
In a similar way, sometimes I think some Catholics need to remember that a date is just that, a date. I’m not advocating a worldly style of dating here, but I do think that we could lighten things up a little, at least in the early stages.
My advice to the male readers, particularly those of the “overthinking” variety, is to regard a date as simply an opportunity to get to know a lady better. You take a girl out, buy her some ice-cream or a nice cup of tea, and talk to her. If all goes well, repeat!
Likewise, I would suggest to the ladies that if a guy asks you out, unless you have a good reason why you shouldn’t do so, graciously accept the invitation. In an earlier post, I urged the guys to “take a chance” and I now offer the ladies the same exhortation. What do you have to lose? At worst, you’ll get a free meal and perhaps a funny first date “fail” story.
“I hated being single. You know when you ask someone out and they shoot you down? Really what they’re saying is, ‘You know what? I don’t even feel like eating a free meal around you”
– Jim Gaffigan
But what happens if the date goes badly but he still asks you out again? Well, I’d suggest that you politely thank him but decline the invitation, saying that you don’t see things romantically progressing further between the two of you. At least you gave him a chance. However, you never know…it might go well and be the beginning of a beautiful relationship 🙂
“Thou and I are too wise to woo peaceably.”
– Benedick, A Much Ado About Nothing
This is the last entry in the series. There may be another post or two that appears in the future, but for the time being, I’m done. I hope I’ve helped shed a little bit of light on the subject of Catholic dating from my perspective and got the conversation going. Now all I have to do is take my own advice!
“..do not forget to specify, when time and place shall assert, that I am an ass. “
– Dogberry, Much Ado About Nothing
If, as a result of reading this series, you end up getting married, all I ask is that you invite me to the wedding, allow me to propose a toast and that you name your first-born child after me. It would be much appreciated 😀
The article Catholic Dating: Analysis Paralysis first appeared on RestlessPilgrim.net
Thanks for doing this series David. Catholic relationships discussions typically assume that you are already in a relationship, which is not the part that I have trouble with. Of course, admitting this means that my comments do not come from a position of authority, but more of a best explanation for what has gone wrong. Take that for what you will.
I think your posts have gone a long way towards starting a conversation that is overdue: a development of set of guidelines to Catholic dating and courtship. The secular world has few guidelines, and the few it has are of no use to us. However, the Catholic world has not really stepped up to fill in the gap. These guidelines are mainly good so that men and women can develop a set of expectations for how dating is supposed to go. Otherwise, many relationships fail before they begin purely because of an expectations gap and violations of unwritten and unshared rules.
One comment from this section: None of us deserve a perfect partner, because we are not perfect ourselves. If a person requires a perfect partner, then the only option is the religious life. We don’t deserve Jesus or Mary, but they love us anyways. Rather than looking for perfection is marriage, it is better to look for compatibility. Do your hopes, dreams, and expectations line up? Do your prospective partner’s faults actually bother you? Does your prospective partner mind your faults?
Thanks for your comments, mate. As I said in my own introduction, I don’t have a ring on my finger, I just have a lot of mistakes to share!
I had a few goals in writing this series. I wanted to share some mistakes I have made, in the hope that other guys don’t repeat them. I wanted to talk about some of the rather destructive dynamics I’ve seen at play within the community. I also wanted to encourage some of the guys to be a little braver because I think that the ladies are missing out on some of the best of men. Equally, I hoped to also give the ladies a little bit of insight into what can go on inside a man’s head (well, this man’s head, at least). The final thing was to get the much-needed conversation started. If I’ve managed to do that, and most of my friends are still speaking to me at the end of it, then I’ll consider it as a success 🙂
And my, have the conversations flowed…
Hopefully they were productive ones 🙂
You fared well David – “thank you” on behalf of the female population for your courage and allowing God to use you in a most efficacious way for marriage vocations! God Bless!
So I’m safe? Does this mean I can stop wearing the cup? 😉
You are safe… but keep wearing the cup if it gives you feelings of security though … whatever suits you best! Lol
What I’ve enjoyed — beyond all the great thoughts involved — in finally a good series on the subject from a single Catholic MAN, especially one coming at it from a similar age & perspective as dateless me. I follow many the blog of young RadTrad Catholic women, but their thoughts on courtship only go so far in being useful for how *I* should approach masters (even if they give me good insight into the mind of dateable type of women I may encounter, I’m not the “boy” they so often describe at this age…).
Glad you found it helpful – welcome to Restless Pilgrim Brian 🙂
David Lewis Bates is DETERMINED to have one of his friends (or a member of the royal family) name their firstborn child after him…
I’m just trying to give the kid the best start in life….
And I have actually had some success. It took consistent bugging one couple for several years, but for the middle name of their fifth child they chose “David” 🙂
You know, one thing that strikes me as you bring up the idea of “giving a guy a chance” is this: many people (even good Catholics, I’ve witnessed it) let simple shallowness get in the way of giving someone a chance.
I’ve heard women say “oh, he’s nice enough, but I didn’t really find him that attractive”. You can read Mod31’s comments on her blog about how she’s heard Catholic guys judging a woman physically.
Eesh.
I remember my husband once getting upset because of a friend we have who’s a-MAZ-ing but not what most guys would be immediately attracted to. My husband’s comment is that shallow guys are missing out because that’s the kind of girl they should all be looking for.
Then there’s the problem of “type”. People often get stuck in a physical “type” they like or do not like. I disliked long hair, facial hair, and earrings on guys. My husband has a very furry face, an earring, and had a ponytail when we first became friends. Thank God I got to know him as a friend (in which physical aspect didn’t matter anyway) and had the opportunity to fall in love with him, what’s really him, not just his style choices. I might not have dated him if he had asked me out before we were friends, since I wouldn’t have had anything to go on except how he looked (shallow!). Since he wasn’t in a hurry but became my friend first, he gave me the chance to get to know what’s really inside (well, most of it. Ever modest as he is, it wasn’t until the best man’s toast at our wedding that I found out he once gave the entire contents of his trunk, full of clothes and stuff since he was moving, to a homeless man). Now, after ten years as a couple, I find him more attractive than ever, and even those things that were “not my style” I actually like now because they’re part of his self-expression.
And if, God willing, we grow old together, well, as I used to tell the teens I worked with when speaking about love and marriage, “ain’t nobody hot at 90 years old, so there’s got to be more to love than that.”
Girls have even more to lose to shallowness, as we go through childbearing and rearing and the havoc they wreak upon us. I would purposefully make just about zero effort in my appearance when I was single because I never wanted to attract some guy who’d expect me to keep it up!
Additionally, I really like Matthew’s comment about not holding out for “perfection”. Amen to that. Marriage is a journey that is supposed to help us get holy. If your spouse were perfect, you wouldn’t have to learn to become more patient, forgiving, selfless, courageous, determined (fortitude) etc etc.
In other words, if they were perfect, you wouldn’t need to grow in virtue.
Instead, look for someone you can trust to be a good teammate in the incredibly challenging work of building a home and family.
So does anyone remember the execise of “make a list of what you are looking for in a girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband?”
(Going to rant a bit… I hate lists…)
I’ve always seen the same “not-quite-shallow-but-it-doesn’t-really-have-depth-either” answers: funny, sense of adventure, caring, etc. It’s not very often to see lists that include virtuous, chaste, saint-like, etc.
Yeeeeeeah….normally, I’m a real fan of lists, but this is one area of my life where I’ve made a conscience decision not to make them anymore…
In the past, I’ve certainly had a list. However, when dating ladies who haven’t ticked every single box, I’ve often been pleasantly surprised. It turns out that I’m not such a great judge of what is good for me 😉
For example, in my early twenties I thought I wanted to marry someone just like me. Errm….no. Things go much better when I have someone to balance me out, cover my weaknesses and help me grow in areas I usually ignore.
So, although I’m sure lists are useful to some people and they help avoid repeating past mistakes, personally I don’t do that any more.
If I was forced to articulate my “criteria”, I’d probably give the (now corny) line from the movie As Good As It Gets: “You make me want to be a better man”. If a lady motivates me, in the language of Matthew Kelly, to become “the best version of myself”, then I figure this is someone I need to have in my life.
thanks for the series it was fun following along and discussing the topics with my friends. i think several started to follow your blog ; ) … but amen to what you were saying. if you find a person that motivates you to be the best version of yourself… you have to hold on to her!! — i dislike having vows that commit people to “never change” such a waste of time.. though we might not acheive perfection, we hope to leave this world better than what we were before.
You’re welcome 🙂
Speaking of listing attributes, I once in my early 20s had such a list, and in one item actually paraphrased “Much Ado,” in that I allowed that a potential boyfriend/husband’s hair could be “…whatever color as may please God.” *Shakes head at former silly self.*
Having matured (somewhat) now, as several previous posters have mentioned, the true focus is on a man who can be a help and support in times of possible trial, who will make me laugh, help me become a saint. While not looking back with regret, there were certainly (good, faithful) men who asked me out in my 20’s who I said no to because they didn’t meet some imagined criteria (though Brad Pitt was never my standard), or weren’t my crush of the moment, but would happily go out with, at least once, now. Not because my standards are any lower — because they aren’t, but because in my 30s I realize there are more important things. I look at my parents, who were married almost 38 years when my dad passed, and where someone with lesser faith or weaker character would have walked away in times of family tragedy or illness, they took their vows seriously. It wasn’t always an idyll, and there was hard work, but there was so much love and mutual respect there; they made each other better. If I have to wait for that (although certain criteria are still non-negotiable: faithful Catholic, non-smoker, intelligent, funny, moderately attractive…), I would rather wait than settle.
> …in one item actually paraphrased “Much Ado,” in that I allowed that a potential boyfriend/husband’s hair could be “…whatever color as may please God.” *Shakes head at former silly self.*
I, on the other hand, would never be so silly to include that in a list.
[Tries very hard to look convincing]
> …the true focus is on a man who can be a help and support in times of possible trial
I think this is really important. When the pressure is on, when the chips are down, we reveal who we truly are…
> …but would happily go out with, at least once, now…
Ah, the wisdom that comes with our thirties… 🙂
LOL. I still have my (sadly rather lengthy) list somewhere, either in a box or shoved in an old journal. It makes for some pretty amusing reading now whenever I happen to stumble upon it. But I keep it as a reminder that I, quite clearly, don’t know best. 🙂
Great post (and series) David! I I think this touches most closely to what I experienced. As a Catholic guy, it was hard to decide when/ if to ask a girl out on a date. It seemed like I was navigating a mine field. These were the outcomes I had to consider as possibilities:
1. She says no- not interested. High school and college sports got me over my fear of rejection, so I didn’t really mind this outcome, but it wasn’t something that really inspired me. Especially since, as you mentioned in earlier posts, it is often accompanied by awkwardness in the friendship and putting the female in a position to “reject the nice guy”. That being said, option (1) is much better than option (2)….
2. She gets the idea that I’m interested and avoids any and all opportunities for individual conversation with me so she doesn’t have to “reject the nice guy”. I go from having a good friend to having a skittish acquaintance. This is especially annoying when I’m not actually interested in the girl and she just thinks I am. That being said, option (2) is much better than option (3)….
3. She says, “YES, ABSOLUTELY. All I want is a nice, Catholic gentleman with a stable income and orthodox beliefs. You seem to fit the bill perfectly and I wear a size 7 ring. Don’t break my heart…” Whoa there, I was just asking to take you to dinner. Ok, that’s a bit exaggerated, but you get the point. David, you hit the nail on the head with your post. There is no defined expectation of what a date or “dating” really means, so it was pretty tough to expect a girl to have the same definition as I did. As someone who attempts to be a Christian Gentleman, the last thing I want to do is lead a woman on or give her false expectations. Since there are girls that have a serious relationship expectation with dating, I often avoided any mention of “date” or “dating” with a girl unless I was absolutely sure that I saw a clear path to our future. And it’s really hard to tell if a girl is interested in my personality compared to my resume (that’s right ladies; I just pulled the personality card).
4. She says, “Yes, I’d like to get to know you too.” That’s what I was going for, but how could I avoid options (2) and (3) (and preferably 1)? And at what point is it worth the risk.
My first solution was just to “hang out” with female friends regularly on a platonic level unless/ until I felt so romantically drawn that I didn’t want to leave it there. Then, through hanging out with these lovely women, I learned something intriguing. Asking a girl on a date (properly and sincerely) HONORS HER. This made sense, but never really occurred to me. After all, if properly stated and taken, you are saying that you think very highly of that girl and are willing to put your pride on the chopping block to get to know her better.
Once I took this to heart, I was much more willing/ interested in asking girls out, but still had to deal with the situations above. My solution at this point was actually pretty simple when I think about it in retrospect:
1. Listen – Both to her words and her actions. Does she seem to genuinely appreciate what you have to say and/ or any efforts to be kind? Does she make any actual positive statements or actions or only interact as much as is necessary to be social / charitable? If she shows absolutely no positive signs of interest, expect response 1 or 2. If she seems to be pursuing you, be prepared for response 3.
2. Speak- use your words. If you are going out on a limb to ask a girl out, go all the way out there and tell her what you mean. Call it a date, but give her the definition with the invitation. Tell her you really enjoy her company and want to get to know her better. That you aren’t asking for anything physically romantic or exclusive, but you are asking for a chance to discern if things should go that way in the future (thus minimizing likelihood of response 3). Have a real conversation that puts as much of a compliment and as little pressure on the girl as possible (thus minimizing likelihood of response 2). Be casual, humble and sincere (to the best of your abilities) and be yourself!
3. Discern- Don’t expect her to be perfect, but expect her to be a God-send. Look for the hand of God pointing you in little or small ways in one direction or another. What are your values and goals in life (besides kids, and “the will of God”) what are your passions, strengths and weaknesses? Do they complement each other? Are you at PEACE about the relationship or are just a riding on emotions/ chemistry? Do you appreciate each other and have fun together? Do you CHERISH each other? Do you inspire each other to be more of the person that you feel called to be? Do you see yourself bringing more glory to God through your union?
Discernment is something of a constant more than it is a step, but I would emphasize that if dating is more about getting to know someone, then as you date, you should be processing the information with a discerning heart (you don’t need to have it all worked out before you ask). That being said, try to give it a few dates unless you find a red flag. If you are anything like me, you might not sense much either way after the first date. Don’t assume that means it wasn’t meant to be. That was one of the last details I picked up, but I guess it worked out right in time…
Since taking that approach (more or less) I managed to maintain friendships when dating didn’t go anywhere and somehow convince an amazing woman to marry me. I must admit there were a few semi-awkward non-dates in getting to know her, but I was painfully honest with her throughout the whole process. For her part, she accepted and appreciated my honesty and left the ball in my court to pursue her. I hope my experience helps those of you still searching.
David, I am not getting married as a result of this post in particular, but you are more than invited to the wedding and you better be planning a toast… Don’t hold your breath for the firstborn namesake, but I will throw it into the cue for discussions with the lady
AMDG
Oh yes, (2) sounds awfully familiar…
By ” And it’s really hard to tell if a girl is interested in my personality compared to my resume” do you mean whether she’s interested in you as John, or whether she’s interested you as a nice Catholic boy who meets husband-material requirements?
Or am I projecting what you mean here? 😉
You’re tracking what I’m writing. By resumé, I mean:
-Catholic (and actually agrees with Church teachings)
-employed, with decent income
-nice
-no major physical deformities or morbidly obese.
-etc etc
Personality refers to my specific sense of humor, activities I enjoy, ability to make conversation, and all the other things that would make me unique even if (God-willing) I make it to heaven.
Ah good, I thought I might be projecting my own hang-ups 🙂
> “David, I am not getting married as a result of this post in particular, but you are more than invited to the wedding and you better be planning a toast…”
Oh, don’t worry, I have a thing or two I would like to share with the lovely people… 😀
> Don’t hold your breath for the firstborn namesake, but I will throw it into the cue for discussions with the lady”
Just know what my first comment is going to be when such an announcement is made… 😉
You’re so right–I think men can be very critical about women’s faults. We women as well can be looking for a saint of a man with very good looks to boot. The fact is, we are all on a journey. No one is perfect except God. In a good relationship, we will help each other to grow into the people we were created to be.
Hey Lee, thanks for your comments and welcome to Restless Pilgrim 🙂
Thanks for the very insightful posts! I stumbled upon your series and read them all in one sitting! I will surely take note and make use of your advices. Though there is quite a difference in the dating scene with the kind of culture i come from. But they are very helpful indeed! I just hope guys who would want to date read this series too. It would save much confusion and make communication more effective if we were on the same page. Thanks for the discussions. I’ll surely share this to my friends. 😀
Welcome to Restless Pilgirm Mona 🙂
Out of interest, what’s your culture and how is the dating scene quite different?
I’m Filipino. And generally, we’re more conservative. From what was taught to me as ideal and from my experience, “courtship” comes before dating. Men need to do a lot of wooing, first to get permission from the woman to actually woo her, then to date her, then to officially start a relationship with her. The woman all the while must be guarded and not easily give her yes. It’s a process that’s vague in practice, more so because our culture isn’t one that is starightforward in expressing ourselves.
Though i see that it’s become more liberated and casual nowadays. But there are still those practices and expectations that men and women carry when considering romantic relationships.