PWJ: S2E2 – TGD 1 – “The bus stop in the grey town”

In today’s chapter we begin the actual story of The Great Divorce. Our protagonist, Lewis, finds himself in a grey town at twilight in the rain. He attaches himself to a queue at a bus stop and watches as people leave the line. Eventually the bus arrives and he begins his journey to his mysterious destination…

S2E2: “The bus stop in the Grey Town” (Download)

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PWJ: S2E1 – TGD P – “Preface”

Today we start a new book! The Great Divorce is my favourite book by Lewis. Through the vehicle of Jack’s story, we get to see more clearly the daily choices which we make which takes us closer to either Heaven or Hell.

Please send any objections, comments or questions, either via email through the new website or tweet us @pintswithjack or message us via Instagram!

S2E1: Preface (Download)

If you enjoy this episode, you can subscribe manually, or any place where good podcasts can be found (iTunesGoogle PlayPodbeanStitcher and TuneIn).

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The Great Divorce: Chapter 14

Summary

Lewis suddenly sees a vision, “a great assembly of gigantic forms all motionless…standing forever about a little silver table…[where] there were little figures like chessmen who went to and fro doing this and that…[each the] puppet representative of some one of the great presences that stood by. And the silver table is Time. And those who stand and watch are the immortal souls of those same men and women”. This vision terrifies Lewis and asks MacDonald if “all that I have been seeing in this country false? These conversations between the Spirits and the Ghosts were they only the mimicry of choices that had really been made long ago?”. His teacher says that alternatively you might say they were “anticipations of a choice to be made at the end of all things”, but that it would be better to say neither. The point was that on this journey he had seen the choices a bit more clearly than on earth because “the lens was clearer. But it was still seen through the lens. Do not ask of a vision in a dream more than a vision in a dream can give”. It is at this point that Lewis realizes that he is not actually dead and only dreaming. MacDonald warns him that, when he tells others, to emphasize that it was only a dream.

The vision of the chessemen fades and he is back in the wood again. Standing with his back to the sunrise, Lewis seeing the land light up before him as the sun rises. Suddenly the air is filled with “hounds, and horns; …ten thousand tongues of men and woodland angels and the wood itself sang”. Screaming, Lewis buries his face in the folds of MacDonald’s robe, but “The light, like solid blocks, intolerable of edge and weight, came thundering upon my head”. In the next moment, the folds of MacDonald’s garment become the folds of Lewis’ ink-stained cloth which he had pulled down as he fell from his chair.  The blocks of light turn out to only be the books which he had pulled from the table. He wakes up “in a cold room, hunched on the floor beside a black and empty grate, the clock striking three, and the siren howling overhead”.

Questions

Q1. How do you understand the vision of the chessmen? How does Lewis now understand this journey? What warning does MacDonald give Lewis?

Q2. Why is Lewis terrified by the sun?

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The Great Divorce: Chapter 13

Summary

The Dwarf struggles against joy. It “was not the meeting [the ghost] had pictured; he would not accept it”. He tugs at the chain and the Tragedian acts offended, saying, “It is fortunate that you give yourself no concern about my fate. Otherwise you might be sorry afterwards to think that you had driven me back to Hell”. The Lady replies “Dear, no one sends you back. Here is all joy. Everything bids you stay”. Saying this does no good –  the Tragedian says he still has some self-respect and the dwarf starts to shrink.

When the Lady tells the Dwarf to not “let it talk like that, the “Tragedian caught her words greedily as a dog catches a bone”, complaining that she always had to be “sheltered”. The Lady explains that wasn’t what she meant, rather that she wanted him to “stop acting… He is killing you. Let go of that chain. Even now”.

Sarah tells Frank to stop “using…other people’s pity, in the wrong way…”. She explains that “Pity was meant to be a spur that drives joy to help misery. But it…can be used for a kind of blackmailing… [to] hold joy up to ransom”. This is something he did ever since he was a child. She asks him “Did you think joy was created to live always under that threat? Always defenceless against those who would rather be miserable than have their self-will crossed?” She explains that “you can no longer communicate your wretchedness… Our light can swallow up your darkness: but your darkness cannot now infect our light”.

The Dwarf and the chain having disappeared, for the first time the Lady addresses the Tragedian, asking who he is and where Frank has gone. She invites him to stay, but the Tragedian vanishes. The lady returns to her retenue who begin to sing a song: “The Happy Trinity is her home: nothing can trouble her joy…”

After departing, Lewis asks his teacher: “Is it really tolerable that she should be untouched by his misery, even his self-made misery?”. MacDonald asks him if he would prefer it if “he still had the power of tormenting her”. He talks about “The demand of the loveless and the self-imprisoned… to blackmail the universe: that till they consent to be happy (on their own terms) no one else shall taste joy… that Hell should be able to veto Heaven… Either the day must come when joy prevails and all the makers of misery are no longer able to infect it: or else for ever… the makers of misery can destroy in others the happiness they reject for themselves”.

Lewis says he finds it horrible to say that pity must someday die. His teacher distinguishes between the action which will last forever and passion of pity which will come to the end. He says that the passion of pity “draws men to concede what should not be conceded” whereas the action “changes darkness into light and evil into good”. However, “we will not call blue yellow to please those who insist on still having jaundice”.

Lewis once again asks why the Spirits don’t go down into Hell to rescue the damned. Going down on his knees and using a blade of grass as a pointer, MacDonald points to a tiny crack, saying, “…through a crack no bigger than that ye certainly came…”. The idea that the infinitely empty Grey Town is down in a little crack blows his mind, but Lewis now realizes that the Lady couldn’t even fit into Hell. MacDonald concurs that “Hell could not open its mouth wide enough”. Referring to Jesus, MacDonald says that “Only the Greatest of all can make Himself small enough to enter Hell…” Lewis asks if He ever will descend again, but MacDonald explains that time doesn’t work that way, but assures Lewis that “There is no spirit in prison to Whom He did not preach”.

Lewis asks MacDonald about his Universalist beliefs, but MacDonald says “it’s ill talking of such questions…because all answers deceive. If ye put the question from within Time…the choice of ways is before you… But if ye are trying to leap on into eternity… then ye ask what cannot be answered to mortal ears. Time is the very lens through which ye see…something that would otherwise be too big for ye to see at all…[but] every attempt to see the shape of eternity except through the lens of Time destroys your knowledge of Freedom”

Questions

Q1. Why does the ghost resist joy? What does the Tragedian threaten? How does the Lady respond?

Q2. What did the Tragedian hold love hostage? What does MacDonald say about pity?

Q3. How does the Lady respond to the Ghost’s disappearance? Why is Lewis troubled by her reaction?

Q4. What does Lewis find out about Hell from MacDonald? Why couldn’t the lady go there?

Q5. What does MacDonald say about time, freedom and predestination?

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The Great Divorce: Chapter 12

Summary

The branches of trees down one aisle of the forest dance with light and Lewis thinks there must be another river nearby. It turns out the light is coming from people in a procession. Lewis tells us that “If I could remember their singing and write down the notes, no man who read that score would ever grow sick or old”. Behind them came a beautiful lady in whose honour all this was being done.

Lewis whispers to MacDonald, “Is it? … is it?”. His teacher responds that it’s actually a lady from Golders Green named Sarah Smith, who is “one of the great ones” in this country. MacDonald identifies some of the people in the procession as angels, and others as “her sons and daughters” who were any child she met on earth. She is also surrounded by animals: cats, dogs, birds and horses. MacDonald explains that “Every beast and bird that came near her had its place in her love. In her they became themselves. And now the abundance of life she has in Christ from the Father flows over into them.”

The Lady moves towards “two phantoms: a great tall Ghost, horribly thin and shaky”, whom Lewis dubs “The Tragedian”, who is being led on a chain by another Ghost who is “no bigger than an organ-grinder’s monkey”. When they meet, despite the Tragedian being the one who speaks, the Lady addresses only the Dwarf Ghost. She kisses him and asks for his forgiveness “For all I ever did wrong and for all I did not do right since the first day we met”. The Dwarf shakes the chain and the Tragedian responds, saying he accepts her apology.

The Tragedian says that he’s been thinking only about her “all these years…breaking your heart about me”. In a small, bleating voice, the Dwarf Ghost asks if she missed him. When the Lady tells him that he’ll understand it soon enough, the Dwarf and Tragedian speak in unison to each other, saying that she didn’t answer the question. It is at this point that Lewis “realised then that they were one person, or rather that both were the remains of what had once been a person”, Sarah’s husband, Frank. The Dwarf and the Tragedian tell each other that “it would be rather fine and magnanimous not to press the point” but they aren’t sure if she’d notice, recalling a time when they let her have the last stamp and she didn’t “see how unselfish we’d been”.

The Dwarf and the Tragedian are shocked to find out that the Lady has been happy in Heaven without him. The Tragedian asks here if she even knows the meaning of the word “Love”! The Lady responds: “How should I not?.. I am in love. In love, do you understand? Yes, now I love truly”. Rather than being comforted by this, the Tragedian asks if this means she didn’t love him on earth. The Lady says she did but “only in a poor sort of way… mostly the craving to be loved… I needed you”. The Tragedian is horrified at the idea that she no longer needs him, even though she says that “We shall have no need for one another now: we can begin to love truly”.

The Tragedian, becoming even more melodramatic, laments “Would to God I had seen her lying dead at my feet before I heard those words”. The Lady tries to snap him out of it by saying to the Dwarf “Frank! … Look at me… What are you doing with that great, ugly doll? Let go of the chain. Send it away. It is you I want. Don’t you see what nonsense it’s talking?”. Her message seems to get through and he starts to smile and grow a little bigger.

Questions

Q1. How would you describe the procession? What is Lewis’ suspicion regarding the identity of the lady?

Q2. Who are the ghosts in this chapter? Why are there two ghosts, one of them on a chain? Why are the ghosts shocked to find that the lady has been happy in Heaven?

Q3. How does the lady describe her love for her husband on earth? How is it different now in Heaven?

Q4. How does the lady try to snap Frank out of the melodrama? Why might this work?

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The Great Divorce: Chapter 11

Summary

Lewis then recounts “one of the most painful meetings” between a ghostly woman named Pam and a Bright Spirit, Reginald, her brother. The ghost is disappointed, expecting instead her son, Michael. Reginald tells her he’s far up in the mountains and explains that she would appear invisible to him at this point, but this would be remedied shortly: “As soon as it’s possible for him to see you, of course he will”. Reginald explains that the first step in this process is rather hard, that she will become solid enough “when you learn to want someone else besides Michael… the little germ of a desire for God that we need to start the process.”

Although rather annoyed at the thought of “religion and all that sort of thing”, she’s willing to do what’s necessary to see her son. Reginald explains this approach is futile, since she’s “treating God only as a means to Michael. But the whole thickening treatment consists in learning to want God for His own sake.” Pam replies that he “wouldn’t talk like that if you were a Mother”, but Reginald explains that she has reduced herself to being only a mother. She was “Michael’s mother only because you first exist as God’s creature”.

Pam then declares that “If [God] loved me He’d let me see my boy” and objects that God had let Michael die. Reginald explains that this was necessary, firstly for Michael’s sake since his mother could never make him truly happy, and secondly for her sake, in an effort to transform her “merely instinctive love…into something better… to love Michael as [God] understands love”. Since Pam’s maternal instinct “was uncontrolled and fierce and monomaniac”, God took him so that “in the loneliness, in the silence, something else might begin to grow.”

These critical comments about “Mother-love” are poorly received by the ghost, who declares it to be “the highest and holiest feeling in human nature”. Reginald responds that “no natural feelings are high or low, holy or unholy, in themselves. They are all holy when God’s hand is on the rein. They all go bad when they set up on their own and make themselves into false gods.” Pam is adamant that her “love for Michael would never have gone bad”. But Reginald points out that she must have met mothers who are united with their sons in the Grey Town but who are still unhappy. She had indeed, but is convinced that this would never happen with her and Michael.

Reginald says that living only for Michael’s memory was a mistake, and this made her husband (Dick) and her daughter (Muriel) miserable. Pam protests saying they didn’t care, but Reginald refutes this. Becoming melodramatic, Pam indignantly replies “Oh, of course. I’m wrong. Everything I say or do is wrong, according to you.” With mirth in his eyes, the Spirit says that this is “what we all find when we reach this country. We’ve all been wrong! …There’s no need to go on pretending one was right! After that we begin living.”

Angry at the humour, Pam demands her son:  “He is mine, do you understand? Mine, mine, mine, for ever and ever.” Reginald replies that “Everything will be yours. God himself will be yours. But not that way”. After pointing out that Michael was originally “an Accident”, Pam says “I hate your religion and I hate and despise your God. I believe in a God of Love.” Reginald points out that, she is the one who has love neither for him nor even for her own mother. When Pam thinks his feelings are hurt, the Spirit laughs and replies that she can’t hurt anyone in this country. Lewis tells us that “The Ghost was silent and open-mouthed for a moment; more wilted, I thought, by this reassurance than by anything else that had been said”

MacDonald leads Lewis away, saying that the conversation is likely to take a while, but that he can now see the choice that is presented to the ghosts. Lewis asks about natural feelings and MacDonald says that “There’s something in natural affection which will lead it on to eternal love more easily than natural appetite could be led on. But there’s also something in it which makes it easier to stop at the natural level and mistake it for the heavenly… And if it finally refuses conversion its corruption will be worse… It is a stronger angel, and therefore, when it falls, a fiercer devil…”. He explains that “Every natural love will rise again and live forever in this country: but none will rise again until it has been buried.”

They then see a Ghost with a little red lizard sitting on his shoulder, whispering things in his ear. The Ghost angrily tells it to shut up, but the lizard continues unabated. The ghost turns to limp away from the mountains.

The ghost meets and angel. The ghost says that the lizard refuses to be quiet, so he’s going home. The angel asks him if he would like to make the lizard quiet. When the ghost says he would, the angel steps forward to kill it, causing the ghost to retreat. The ghost downplays the issue. He says he was only thinking about silencing it. He procrastinates. He says he’s sure it’ll be quiet now and that the gradual process would be better. He complains of ill health. The Angel rejects all these excuses and repeatedly asks if he can kill the lizard. The ghost is convinced he’ll die and says the angel is already hurting him. The Angel replies “I never said it wouldn’t hurt you. I said it wouldn’t kill you.” The ghost complains that the Angel should have killed the lizard without asking, but the Angel responds “I cannot kill it against your will. It is impossible. Have I your permission?”

The Lizard starts chattering to the Ghost, saying that the Angel really can kill him and that, if this happens, the ghost would be all alone and that he promises to be good. Facing a life constantly harassed by the lizard, the ghost gives his permission. The Angel closes his hands around the reptile, the ghost screams and the lizard is flung with its back broken on the turf.

The Ghost begins to become more solid, an immense man, naked, not much smaller than the Angel”. At the same time, the lizard transforms into a great stallion. The man flings himself at the feet of the Angel and then rises, leaping on the horse’s back and races off towards the mountain. Lewis says that “the whole plain and forest were shaking with a sound… the voice of that earth, those woods and those waters”.

Lewis asks MacDonald “…does it mean that everything… that is in us can go on to the Mountains?”. His Teacher responds that “Nothing… can go on as it now is… [it] will not be raised again if it submits to death… Flesh and blood cannot come to the Mountains. Not because they are too rank, but because they are too weak. What is a Lizard compared with a stallion? Lust is a poor, weak, whimpering whispering thing compared with that richness and energy of desire which will arise when lust has been killed.”

Lewis tries to understand how “this man’s sensuality proved less of an obstacle than that poor woman’s [excess of] love for her son”. MacDonald immediately rejects this, saying that “There was no excess, there was defect. She loved her son too little, not too much… it may well be that at this moment she’s demanding to have him down with her in Hell. That kind is sometimes perfectly ready to plunge the soul they say they love in endless misery if only they can still in some fashion possess it” MacDonald says that Lewis must draw another lesson: “Ye must ask, if the risen body even of appetite is as grand a horse as ye saw, what would the risen body of maternal love or friendship be?”

Questions

Q1. Why is the Motherly Ghost disappointed? What prevents her from growing solid?

Q2. Why are we told God took her son? How do you square this with “a God of love”.

Q3. What was wrong about Pam’s relationship with her son. Why does MacDonald rebuke Lewis for saying that this mother has “an excess of love”?

Q4. What was wrong about Pam’s relationship with her other family members?

Q5. How does this chapter relate to the material covered in “The Four Loves”? How can good things go wrong?

Q6. What does the lizard represent? Why does the ghost resist to its death? What excuses does the ghost make? Why is the ghost’s permission required?

Q7. How does the lizard attempt to argue for its own survival?

Q8. What happens to the lizard? What does this mean? What does MacDonald when he says that everything must submit to death in order to live in this world?

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The Great Divorce: Chapter 10

Summary

Lewis recounts another overheard “conversation” between a Ghost and a female Spirit named Hilda. The ghost begins by saying that she would not dream of staying in Heaven if she were expected to meet Robert, her husband and Hilda’s brother. She says that she forgives him “as a Christian…but there are some things one can never forget.” She even seems puzzled as to how he came to be in Heaven at all.

She then begins to retell the story of her life with Robert. Her chief complaint was “The ingratitude! It was I who made a man of him! Sacrificed my whole life to him! And what was my reward? Absolute, utter selfishness”. She explains that he was relatively poor man, completely lacking ambition, and that she was the one “who had to drive him every step of the way”. She nagged him to take on extra work, which is regarded as nothing in comparison to her own workload, since she “I had to keep him going all evening…draw him out of himself and brighten him up and make conversation”. He didn’t appreciate her flower arrangements, particularly when she spilled a vase on the manuscript of a book he was writing (something which she “cured him of…in the end”)

She complained about Robert’s attempts to “just slink off by himself every now and then to see what he called his old friends… and leave me to amuse myself!” Instead, she insisted that the friends come to the house instead. She both subtlety manipulated her husband and made his friends feel uncomfortable, managing to drive them away by the end of their first year of marriage.

Upon receiving a promotion, Robert hoped for peace, but his wife now wanted to get a bigger house and was irritated that he doesn’t seem thoroughly enthusiastic about the house-hunting process. She convinced him to buy a house they couldn’t really afford, but she was excited that she could now “entertain properly”. In contrast, she said that Robert “…just set himself to get old and silent and grumpy”, even though he “hadn’t always been like that”. Robert would just sit there, hating her and she grew to hate him too. There appears to have been some issue with the “younger men who came to the house” who liked her better than her “old bear of a husband” and “used to laugh at him”.

Towards the end of Robert’s life, she bought a great Dane and forced him to walk it for his health. She kept hosting parties, “took him for the most wonderful holidays…[and] saw that he didn’t drink too much”. She even allowed him to take up writing again (“It couldn’t do any harm by then”). But in the end, Robert had a nervous breakdown, but the ghost said her conscience is clear – she had done her duty.

Reconsidering, the ghost says that she will, in fact, meet Robert. If Heaven will give her “a free hand”, she’ll “take charge of him again…make something of him…. There’s lots, lots, lots of things I still want to do with him”. When Hilda tells her this is not possible, she becomes desperate: “Please, please! I’m so miserable. I must have someone to – to do things to…. No one minds about me at all [in Hell]. I can’t alter them”. The ghost snaps, saying “I hate you. How can I pay him out if you won’t let me have him?”. Lewis says that “The Ghost which had towered up like a dying candle flame snapped suddenly… and then there was no Ghost to be seen”.

Questions

Q1. How would you describe the ghost? How would you describe the husband?

Q2. Why is the ghost reticent about meeting her husband? What does she think about forgiveness?

Q3. How did she regard the relationship with her husband? What kind of relationship does Christianity imagine?

Q4. What do you think was the ghost’s motivation regarding her husband?

Q5. What did she think of his desire to write a book?

Q6. Why do you think Robert’s ability to be a good host declined?

Q7. Why does the ghost change her mind about seeing Robert? Under what condition? How does she respond?

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