Tag: Jehovah Witnesses

Canon Dates

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Since I’m going to be discussing the question of the canon with some Jehovah Witnesses this weekend, I thought I’d post a few of the important dates which I often need to look up when talking about the setting of the canon of Scripture:

AD 170
The Muratorian fragment describes a New Testament canon which includes all of today’s books, with the exception of Hebrews, James, and 3rd John.

AD 180
Melito of Sardis provides a list of Old Testament books, including Wisdom but excluding Esther.

AD 367
Bishop Athanasius of Alexandria lists in his 39th Festal Letter the canon.  His Old Testament canon generally excludes the deutercanon, but includes Baruch and excludes Esther. He includes the entire New Testament canon.

AD 382
The Synod of Rome lists the 73 books of the Catholic Canon.

AD 393
The Council of Hippo lists the Catholic Canon. As with the other local councils, the pronouncements of the council were sent to Rome to be ratified by the Pope.

AD 397
The Council of Carthage confirms the pronouncements of Council of Hippo.

AD 405
Bishop of Toulouse requests a list of all the books of Scripture from the Bishop of Rome. Pope Innocent I sends him the list of 73.

Jerome completes the Latin Vulgate translation of the Bible.

AD 419
The Second Council of Carthage confirms the Catholic canon.

AD 1441
The Council of Florence also lists the 73 book canon.

AD 1563
The Council of Trent also lists the current day Catholic canon.

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For a detailed list of books used in the Early Church, please check out this post from Shameless Popery.

When Jehovah Witnesses come to call…

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I have two Jehovah Witnesses (JW) coming to see me this weekend…

early_watch_tower_cover

Knock, knock…

You see, two JWs turned up at my door about a month ago. They asked about religion so I told them a little bit about my faith journey. I explained how the issue of the canon (the Bible’s table of contents) was one of the decisive topics which brought about my return to Catholicism. 

How did they know that the table of contents was correct, I asked. I knew the various standard Protestant answers to this question and found them all unconvincing, but I wondered how a JW would answer it. The two missionaries at my door said they couldn’t answer that question, but they’d go find out and get back to me.

(This was, by the way, an excellent answer. When someone asks you a question and you don’t know the answer, it’s far better to say you don’t know, rather than trying to make something up on the spot. Just make sure that you do actually find out the answer and come back)

Well, this last Saturday I had two older chaps turn up at my door. I invited them in but they didn’t want to and instead booked an appointment with me for this weekend. I’m currently looking to find an icon of St. Nicholas to put up in time for their visit 😉

(There was a legend that St. Nicholas punched Arias in the face at the Council of Nicaea for denying the full deity of Christ, a doctrine also affirmed by JWs)

“But I’m no theology expert…”

I didn’t want to end this post without briefly mentioning something else on the subject of JWs. Not all Catholics will feel comfortable meeting with JWs and discussing theology, and others might just simply don’t have the time. However, I would like to share something that a friend of mine does when JWs call. She simply says the following:

glass-of-water“It’s really great that you care so much about your faith that you’re willing to give up your Saturday mornings to do this, but I should probably tell you I’m Catholic. In fact, I’m reeeeally Catholic, so I think I’d probably just be a waste of your time. 

It’s pretty hot outside today though, so would you like to take a chilled bottle of water to take with you?”

So, if you have to go pick up the kids for soccer practice or you’re busy getting brunch together and don’t have the time, I think this is a great response to give. It’s simple, it takes a grand total of thirty seconds to say and demonstrates concretely the love of Christ to those who love God enough to face rejection and abuse from strangers every week.

For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you bear the name of Christ, will by no means lose his reward. – Mark 9:41

Bible Canon Questions

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Today over at St. Joseph’s Vanguard Devin wrote an article about How Evangelicals Know Their Canon Is Correct. It describes an exchange Devin had with an Evangelical concerning which books belong in the Bible.

Now, not all Evangelicals will hold those views expressed in the article, but I have to say that Devin’s exchange bears a strong resemblance to conversations I myself have had with non-Catholics concerning Sacred Scripture…

In my experience, when a Catholic-Protestant dialog reaches this stage it often stagnates. You then spend a lot of time going round and round in circles… 🙁

In an effort to stop this from happening, I find that it is generally best to keep asking questions. These questions will hopefully reveal to the non-Catholic his unknown dependency upon Catholic Church with regards to the formation of the Canon.

You may recall a little while ago I wrote about an exchange I had with a chap called Jay. When we were talking about the Bible, these were some of the questions I asked him:

1.  Let’s say I don’t believe James should be in the Bible.  Show me why I’m wrong. What’s to stop me from just taking this book out of the Bible?

2.  Let’s say I believe that Clement’s letter to the Corinthians should be in the Bible.  Show me why I’m wrong.  He was alive during the time of the Apostles and Clement has strong credentials for being taught by them…

3. Who wrote the Letter to the Philippians? What about the Gospel of Mark? How do you know?

4. Who were the people who painstakingly copied the New Testament manuscripts throughout the centuries?

5. Have you checked the authenticity of every book in the Bible? Are you sure that we have all the available “inspired texts”? How did you reach your opinion over what and what isn’t the Word of God? Are you 100% certain? Can I trust your judgment on this? Because if you’re wrong I could be ignoring text which is the Word of God and reading text which isn’t…

6. Who assembled the canon of the New Testament and when? Please give me names and dates.

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