PWJ: S4E57 – AH – “After Hours” with Dr. Mark Vernon
Continuing with Barfield Month, we invited Dr. Mark Vernon onto the show to discuss his Barfield-inspired book, “A Secret History of Christianity.
S4E57: “After Hours” with Dr. Mark Vernon (Download)
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Timestamps
00:00:00 – Entering “The Eagle & Child”…
00:00:11 – Welcome
00:00:41 – Dr. Mark Vernon
00:09:00 – Quote-of-the-week
00:09:30 – Drink-of-the-week
00:09:53 – Discussion: Background
00:13:11 – Discussion: Meeting the Inklings
00:15:25 – Discussion: Barfield’s spiritual journey
00:20:44 – Discussion: Barfield and Artificial Intelligence
00:31:26 – Discussion: Sources of inspiration
00:39:17 – Discussion: Early Old Testament Consciousness
00:44:12 – Discussion: Meanwhile, in Athens…
00:45:56 – Discussion: The Word was made flesh
00:49:18 – Discussion: The bottom line
00:53:15 – Discussion: Individualism and collectivism
00:58:40 – Discussion: Dante
01:03:05 – More Information
01:03:51 – “Last Call” Bell and Closing Thoughts
YouTube Version
After Show Skype Session
No Skype Session today!
Show Notes
Biography
Mark is a psychotherapist and writer, with an interest in ancient philosophy, and a focus on the skills and insights that illuminate our inner lives. His studies began with a degree in physics, before two degrees in theology, followed by a PhD in philosophy – an academic journey that took him from the universities of Durham and Oxford to my own sister’s alma mater, Warwick. His professional life began as a priest in the Church of England, from which he resigned about 20 years ago. Now as a psychodynamic psychotherapist, he has a private practice in London, working with individuals, as well as having worked at the Maudsley Hospital in south London in a personality disorder service. He is a teacher and writer, and is the author of A Secret History of Christianity, which is based upon the ideas of the Oxford Inkling we’re looking at this month, Owen Barfield.
Biographical information for Dr. Mark Vernon
Chit Chat
- Like most of our guests during Barfield Month, I first heard about Mark Vernon through the Inklings’ grandson, Owen A. Barfield when my wife and I were in England a couple of years ago. About a year later I heard him on Justin Brierly’s show, Unbelievable? with Rev Malcolm Guite, talking about Owen Barfield.
- One of the reasons I wanted him on the show for Barfield Month is because he’s doing two important things. Firstly, he seems to be convinced that Barfield’s ideas have practical consequences and not just abstract ideas. Secondly, he’s trying to communicate these ideas to a popular audience, not simply academics.
Quote-of-the-week
- Since today we’re going to be talking a lot about the evolution of consciousness, I chose today’s quote from Mere Christianity…
“People often ask when the next step in evolution — the step to something beyond man — will happen. But on the Christian view, it has happened already. In Christ a new kind of man appeared: and the new kind of life which began in Him is to be put into us.”
C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
Drink-of-the-week
- The time difference between the West Coast of the United States and England meant that I recorded the interview early in the morning, so he was drinking Green Tea.
Discussion
Biographical Information
Mark is a psychotherapist and writer, with an interest in ancient philosophy, and a focus on the skills and insights that illuminate our inner lives. His studies began with a degree in physics, before two degrees in theology, followed by a PhD in philosophy – an academic journey that took him from the universities of Durham and Oxford to my own sister’s alma mater, Warwick.
Biographical information for Dr. Mark Vernon
His professional life began as a priest in the Church of England, from which he resigned about 20 years ago. Now as a psychodynamic psychotherapist, he has a private practice in London, working with individuals, as well as having worked at the Maudsley Hospital in south London in a personality disorder service. H
e is a teacher and writer, and is the author of A Secret History of Christianity, which is based upon the ideas of the Oxford Inkling we’re looking at this month, Owen Barfield.
Background
- Mark has had a complicated spiritual journey, so I asked him to share a little bit about his background.
- Mark explained how he first came across the Inklings and Owen Barfield in particular.
- Barfield had a really interesting collection of ideas. He drew heavily from Rudolf Steiner and was an Anthroposophist for much of his life, but also came into the Anglican Church towards the end of his life. This is one of the tensions in his life which I find fascinating and perplexing. I asked Mark what he made of Barfield’s own spiritual journey.
The Secret History of Christianity
- We turned to Dr. Vernon’s book, The Secret History of Christianity. I asked him to first explain what this “secret history” referred to.
- Mark explained what ideas from Owen Barfield are found in this book and which come from other sources.
- I explained that much of what Dr. Vernon reminds me of is Jordan Peterson, in the sense that he engages the Bible from a different angle than has been traditionally adopted. We spoke about Jordon briefly and I commented on his recent discussion of the recent conversation between Peterson and Pageau:
Evolution of Consciousness
- We began by looking at the question of consciousness in the earliest books of the Bible.
- Mark explained why he takes a detour and looks at the Greek lands.
- Next we discussed Jesus and the impact that Barfield saw Him as having.
- We concluded this section by talking about the practical impact of what is argued in this book.
Dante
- I pointed out the significance of Dante with regards to Lewis and the Inklings and their friends in general. I asked Dr. Vernon to talk about his Dante podcast and his upcoming book on Dante.