Sitting down with a Jehovah’s Witness
So, as many of you know, a couple of weeks ago I had Jehovah’s Witnesses (JW) scheduled to visit my home. I had already received two rounds of visits from them but had not yet managed to get them across my threshold. However, on their previous visit they had promised that next time they would have time to come in and have a proper chat.
I had received my first visit about a month earlier when two female JWs had called. During our discussion on the doorstep, I had spoken a little bit about my reversion to Catholicism and about how the question of the canon had played an important part in my return, being rather unimpressed with the various Protestant explanations as to the Bible’s Table Of Contents. Since JWs are distinctly set apart from Protestants, I asked the ladies on my doorstep how they would justify the contents of the Biblical canon. They had no explanation, but said that they would find out and get back to me.
Several weeks later, two gentlemen rang my doorbell, saying that they had heard from their associates that I was interested in knowing about the “hidden” books of the Bible. I explained that my question was not about the deuterocanon/apocrypha per se, but rather about the Biblical canon as a whole. How did they know the right books were in the Bible? How did they know that there were no wrong ones included and no books missed out? Unfortunately, they said that they didn’t have time to talk with me there and then, but they booked an appointment for the following week.
In today’s blog post I’d like to explain what happened on this next visit and the rather interesting turn of events towards the end…
Knock knock…
As those of you who have been visited by Jehovah Witnesses will know, they typically go door-to-door in pairs. I was rather surprised, therefore, that when the time for my appointment rolled around, I opened the door to find a solitary figure standing there, the older of the two gentleman who had visited me the previous week. For the sake of this blog post, I’ll be calling “Jim”…
I invited Jim into my house and offered him a cup of tea, which he politely declined. We spent the first ten minutes or so partaking in some polite small talk. I got to know a little bit about him and his family and he got to hear a little bit of the story as to how an Englishman ends up living in southern California. I had heard that JWs were well trained in evangelism and I thought he demonstrated this training well by spending some time establishing a little bit of a relationship with me, learning a little bit about me and building a good rapport before jumping into some hard-hitting theology.
The canon
As the small talk drew to a close, Jim turned to the subject of his visit. He handed me a folder with several pages of material, saying that I didn’t have to read it now, but that it was a summary of his research. I quickly flicked through through the folder and unfortunately it rapidly became clear that Jim had only really prepared to discuss the subject of the deuterocanon/apocrypha.
I explained that if he were only able to speak to the deuterocanon/apocrypha, that was fine, but I reiterated some of the questions I had asked him and the others on their previous visits. For example, I told him that Luther didn’t think the Epistle of James was Scripture and that he tried to take it out of the canon – why was he wrong?
There were several times during our discussion where I noticed Jim go slightly off-topic, and I’m pretty sure he dropped into an often-repeated explanation of some JW doctrine (the use of the name “Jehovah”, the belief that Jesus was crucified on a stake, …). This didn’t bother me; I’m sure I do the same thing when it comes to explaining my own faith. However, whenever Jim did this, I did my best to get him back off that well-worn path. I wanted to try and get him to think about some things he’d probably never before considered. I figured that was going to be of more value than simply having him repeat speeches he’d have given a hundred times before.
The deuterocanon
So, in the absence of being able to speak about the New Testament and the canon in general terms, we turned to the subject of the deuterocanon. I could describe our exchange in detail, but honestly the arguments presented were pretty much the run-of-the-mill Protestant objections, all of which have solid rebuttals.
Jim said that he’d stop by again at some point to see what I made of the material he gave me. I’ve heard from others that JWs are not allowed to accept religious material from others, especially if it is critical of the Watchtower or their teachings. To get around this, what I’m going to do is go through the folder and annotate the sheets with my rebuttals. This way he can read my critique of the arguments presented there without breaking the rules!
In total, we spent about half the time of Jim’s visit talking about the canon. Despite the pleasant and congenial nature of our discussion, I have to admit I was rather disappointed with the exchange up until this point. I hadn’t expect him to come so ill-prepared to discuss my question and I was also rather disappointed with the rather uninspired(!) arguments he presented concerning the deuterocanon. However, I found the remaining portion of Jim’s visit was far more enlightening…
…and for the rest of the time….
Jim told me a little bit about how Jehovah Witnesses operate. He said that he was enrolled in formation classes as a child at his Kingdom Hall and that from this “school” he will never graduate. This confirmed what I had heard about their group taking religious education very seriously. Can you imagine what the Catholic Church would look like if Sunday School continued even for adults?
Jim recounted the words of a Catholic priest he once knew, who said “If I had ten people in my parish who were as evangelistic as you Jehovah Witnesses, we’d convert the entire city”. It turned out that Jim was a fan of the Second Vatican Council document, Apostolicam Actuositatem, a document from the Second Vatican Council concerning the apostolate of the laity. When Jim was settling in and I was pouring my tea, I asked him how many hours he spent evangelizing. He replied that he typically spent twenty hours per week going door-to-door! This was a man in his seventies! I’ve heard from other people that this is not at all that unusual and younger people do even more. Can you imagine what the world would look like if the Catholic Church had that kind of zeal for evangelism?
One of the most interesting points that Jim made concerned the size of JW congregations. He said that their congregations grow primarily through evangelism and that when a congregation reaches a certain size, they purposefully split and form two new congregations. This has the effect of keeping their congregations small. This keeps congregation mission-focused. It also ensures that the congregations remain a tight-knit family, rather than suffering from the parishioner anonymity which plagues mainline Christian congregations. (This is a really interesting topic that I hope to talk about in another post)
Following on from this, Jim asked me about my experience of the Catholic Church. I’m sure he has heard many less-than-inspiring stories of Catholic parish life. I told him a little bit about the love I have for my parish, but I also took some time to talk a little bit about my turbulent years and my eventual wholehearted return to the Church. I shared about how I came to see the Church as a hospital for sinners rather than a museum of perfected saints. I spoke about how the music may vary in quality, the preaching may differ in fervor, but that at every liturgy, Jesus comes to us in the Eucharist, our greatest prize.
Since we moved into doctrinal territory, Jim enquired about some of the teaching of the Catholic Church. He didn’t try and argue with anything I said, he really appeared just to want to know. In particular, he asked me about the Catholic teaching concerning Protestants in the Final Judgement. Having done a little bit of reading about Jehovah’s Witnesses, I knew that in Watchtower theology the outlook for non-Jehovah Witnesses isn’t that rosy. Because of this, it was wonderful to be able to speak about the Catholic hope of salvation. This then led me into a general explanation of salvation in Catholic theology. Honestly, this was my favourite moment in our hour-and-a-half meeting. I got to explain in broad strokes the covenantal story of salvation history, ending with a kerygmatic proclamation of the love of Christ and the invitation to enter into God’s family (1 Timothy 3:15) and participate in the very life of God (2 Peter 1:4).
The Indictment
Towards the end of our time together, Jim asked me “Do you know 1 Peter 3:15?”. This is the classic Scriptural apologetic text which I had actually prayed earlier that day, so I quoted it:
“… Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect” – 1 Peter 3:15
What he said next was really touching:
“You did that for me today. Believe me, I’ve knocked on a lot of doors over the years and you’re the first Catholic who’s done that. Now, I say that as both a compliment and an indictment…”
I found this extremely humbling and kinda astounding, given the number of doors that this septuagenarian would have knocked on in his life. Clearly, we Catholics need to do something about this. We spent the rest of the time talking about bringing about renewal in the Catholic Church, which was really quite beautiful.
Farewell
I showed Jim to the door. He asked me to look over the material he gave me and I said I would. I encouraged him to ask around and try to come up with an answer to my questions which had thus far not received an answer. I also encouraged him to spend some time reading the Early Church Fathers.
I hope he comes back at some point. I’ll be praying for him in the meantime and, if you’ve made it to the bottom of this post, I’d invite you to pray for him too. He shared with me that he has a heart murmur and will probably have to have surgery at some point.
It was a productive dialogue, I think. I had gently presented him with some questions which he couldn’t answer and during our time together he had reminded me of the lackluster reputation of Catholics. We clearly have a lot of work to do.
St. Thérèse of Lisieux, patron of the missions, pray for us.
This was great thank you for sharing. I was surprised by some at my door a month ago and it didn’t go super well. I have a problem with getting offended when Mormons and JW attack the nature of God (of course they don’t know they are doing it). So I definitely need to work on how I dialogue with them!
I really don’t recommend heading down that route with them. Although their arguments are flawed, both groups are well-prepared to argue this particular point, which will mean that a large portion of their time with you will be spent regurgitating well-rehearsed responses. This is time which I think could be better spent. Mormons, in particular, will typically not stay long enough to allow you to thoroughly rebut their arguments.
For this reason, I think it’s more effective to approach the more foundational assumptions of the person with whom you are speaking. If you can sow a seed to get them to think about something which they’ve never before considered, I think you’re on the right track.
Questions about the canon are good for both groups. Also, both groups believe (to varying degrees) in the Great Apostasy (here and here). I’ve also found this to be a fruitful area of questioning:
1. When do you believe the Great Apostasy happened?
2. Can an apostate Church select the canon? Can an apostate Church be trusted to safely preserve the Scriptural manuscripts?
3. Why do you think God allow the long-awaited Messiah to come, but for His message to be utterly lost within one/two generations?
4. Have you read the writings of the Christians from the First Century? The Didache, Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, … Do you think they reflect your group’s teaching?
I’d also recommend you check out these talks from the Institute of Catholic Culture. Of course, when it doubt, you can just offer them a bottle of water and send them on their way with a smile…
My experience with the JW’s is exactly the same. They are ready for the most common objections or questions. They can give the answers without ever really thinking about them.
I have never used the line of questioning you suggest here, but it makes perfect sense.
Even Protestant cults don’t know their early church history!
Whenever I get into discussions about Catholicism, I try to do my best to answer the questions posed, but then turn to my canon questions because these get to the foundational questions of Christianity and how we come to know Jesus. You can’t really talk about the Church’s teaching concerning, say, the Eucharist or Mary, before addressing these questions.
I’ll try and do a “Great Apostasy Questions” post later this month, since that’s my other main approach with JWs, Mormons and the more extreme Protestant Fundamentalists.
I think we do have a lot of work to do as Catholics, thank you for this post. I have always wished there was more teaching for adults, i came into the church as an adult and feel there is a learning curve and while i believe what i know of the church to be true there was and is a lot I came in believing through faith and faith alone that i still have questions about and need to learn more of. Things people ask me that i need to find the answers for but wish i just knew already in my head. It would be great to have a course where it is discussed the differences between our faith and others like JW and LDS. even though i know what mormons believe is not true i have always admired how they are able to instill their faith so strongly in their families and keep their children in the church as well as they do.
Yeah, this is definitely a major failing of today’s Church. There is teaching available, but it’s mostly online:
http://www.instituteofcatholicculture.org
http://salvationhistory.com
http://catholic.com
…
The Institute of Catholic Culture has a specific series on JWs, Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists that you might like to check out.
I loved reading this. Thank you for sharing! I’ll be praying.
You’re welcome. Thanks 🙂
Will definitely be praying for “Jim,” David. Thanks for posting this. Joe H says hi, btw.
I love what you did with this fellow. You were kind and non-judgmental and offered him some thought provoking ideas. I, too, wish that as Catholics, we could be inspired to learn more about our faith and be able to share it. I, for one, continue to learn more each day and am blessed by it.
Thanks Jean.
As I suggested to Rachel above, I think it’s not only important that we know our faith, but to also know the right questions to ask when an evangelist comes knocking on our doors.
We have a small window of opportunity with someone when they visit us and we need to spend some time preparing so that we make the most of the time and sow some seeds. This is why I try to avoid the “standard” points of dispute with these groups. They will be well prepared and well rehearsed. Not only that, tackling these topics will mean that they will spend a lot of the time regurgitating prepared answers. We want to avoid that and instead have them thinking in new ways.
Not only that, I rather doubt that any JW has every converted after someone presented a strong case against Jesus being crucified on a pole. We really want to get to the deeper questions of truth and where it is to be found…
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Thanks for posting this. Gives me a lot to think about in my approach with a JW neighbor of mine here in my garden-style apartment complex (just two apartments away). A single-mother, I get the sense that she’s not the quintessential JW, so she doesn’t interact with too many of us around here — unless acting in her Mom Role, she only talks to me (a Catholic active in lay ministry & apostolates) and my downstairs Presbyterian neighbor (a former children’s Sunday school teacher who writes on the epistles). She actually overheard us talking about Matthew one day and introduced herself. For about two days, she did the whole evangelization routine (especially on my neighbor), before settling into really just being more friendly: she just really seems lonely, after all, being in that particularly religious culture (as a single Catholic, I can understand to some of a more-mainstreamed degree). Our conversations will include a tiny bit of apologia or discussion of what service/mass each was at on occasion, but mostly it’s just usual neighbor stuff — I get the sense that she’s allowed to talk to fellow active-Christian neighbors (most of our other neighbors are Hindu or Sikh) but doesn’t want to chance driving the two of us away with a hard sell while she does her missionary work outside of the home base. With her young daughter even chatting with my other neighbor and I (I helped her coax a stray kitten out of a car’s undercarriage the other night), I really get a different look at the JW from those two. Meanwhile, my Presbyterian neighbor and I have all sorts of fun doctrinal discussions, but our three-way chats are lower-key by seemingly-understood-mutual agreement.
BTW, with references made to Mormons in the comments, I think that there’s a distinction of the culture of the two, regardless of the doctrines both being at best stretching of Christianity. Growing up, I knew a good number of Mormons through Boy Scouts (there’s a joke that the BSA is 45% Catholic, 45% Mormon, and 10% folks loudly agitating for changes) and spent most of my young adulthood with a Mormon for one of my best friends (he’s in a similar place to me, as that rare single guy who nevertheless stayed in his congregation). I’ve made the point before that JWs act like Protestants in their culture despite very different doctrine, while Mormons actually act surprisingly similar to Catholics in their culture despite very different doctrine: it’s not surprising to see the RCC and the LDS together basically leading the cause for traditional marriage and pro-life in the country (my Mormon buddy keeps joking about whether a Mormon can join the Knights of Columbus because he loved the charity and social work that my council did). Just as the story here shows the grounds where there’s hope to bring JWs back to Rome, I really think that there’s surprising room for ecumenism with the LDS to start bringing them back toward Rome after social and political ties between Catholics and Mormons over the past few decades in many areas.
I’m glad I could help 🙂
Your situation with your neighbour sounds unique – I’m sure the Lord will use it for good!
You’re right about Mormons & JWs. People often lump the two together because of their evangelistic efforts, but the two groups are very different both in doctrine, training and methods. Mormon missionaries are typically young men and, although they receive a lot of training, are typically less experienced than JWs and will also typically be quicker to leave if they sense opposition.
I’d also agree with your comments about the Mormon similarities with Catholicism. After all, they too believe in an authoritative Church. Many ex-Catholics unfortunately make up the ranks of the LDS, but it doesn’t mean we can’t work in partnership on many social projects.
I like how you wrote in your rebuttals in the notes! That is so true that Catholics need more fervor; it’s been a burden on me lately actually. Holy Spirit, come upon us!
Glad you enjoyed it 🙂