{"id":81149,"date":"2021-06-03T00:15:00","date_gmt":"2021-06-03T07:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/?p=81149"},"modified":"2021-06-03T04:06:27","modified_gmt":"2021-06-03T11:06:27","slug":"pwj-s4e69","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/2021\/06\/03\/pwj-s4e69\/","title":{"rendered":"PWJ: S4E69 \u2013 AH \u2013 &#8220;After Hours&#8221; with Dr. Louis Markos"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><a href=\"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/05\/S4E69-Louis-Markos-YouTube.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"860\" height=\"484\" src=\"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/05\/S4E69-Louis-Markos-YouTube.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-81151\" srcset=\"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/05\/S4E69-Louis-Markos-YouTube.png 860w, https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/05\/S4E69-Louis-Markos-YouTube-300x169.png 300w, https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/05\/S4E69-Louis-Markos-YouTube-768x432.png 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 860px) 100vw, 860px\" \/><\/a><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We first had Dr. Louis Markos on the show during Season 2 when we spoke about imagery of Heaven and Hell in Western Literature. He also recently made an appearance on <em>Barfield Month<\/em>. Today he returns once more to talk about his new book, <a style=\"font-size: 1em\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Myth-Made-Fact-Mythology-Christian\/dp\/1600513956\">The Myth Made Fact: Reading Greek and Roman Mythology through Christian Eyes<\/a><span style=\"font-size: 1em\">.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>S4E69: &#8220;After Hours&#8221; with Dr. Louis Markos<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/05\/PWJ-S4E69.mp3\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Download<\/a>)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-audio\"><audio controls src=\"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/05\/PWJ-S4E69.mp3\"><\/audio><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\" id=\"block-51396fab-e50d-4cf5-92e3-e840026c934b\">If you enjoy this episode, you can subscribe&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"http:\/\/feeds.feedburner.com\/TheEagleAndChildPodcast\" target=\"_blank\">manually<\/a>, or&nbsp;any place where good podcasts can be found&nbsp;(<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/the-eagle-and-child-podcast-restless-pilgrim\/id1289456381\" target=\"_blank\">iTunes<\/a>,&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/play.google.com\/music\/m\/Ixvobfgi2wk4rkdegdnbdqjjh44?t=The_Eagle_and_Child\" target=\"_blank\">Google Play<\/a>, <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Pints-with-Jack\/dp\/B08K57WLYB\/\" target=\"_blank\">Amazon<\/a>,&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.podbean.com\/podcast-detail\/wqkqe-5e798\/The+Eagle+and+Child\" target=\"_blank\">Podbean<\/a>,&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"http:\/\/www.stitcher.com\/s?fid=159766&amp;refid=stpr\" target=\"_blank\">Stitcher<\/a>,&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/tunein.com\/radio\/The-Eagle-and-Child-p1079872\/\" target=\"_blank\">TuneIn<\/a>&nbsp;and&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/overcast.fm\/itunes1289456381\/pints-with-jack\" target=\"_blank\">Overcast<\/a>), as well as on&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/channel\/UCcYFlFuyOmYL6LcuicqzULw\" target=\"_blank\">YouTube<\/a>. The roadmap for Season 4 is&nbsp;<a href=\"http:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/pints-with-jack-season-4\/\">available here<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\" id=\"block-a56ad4a8-f43a-4986-8d5f-09ffa487daa4\">More information about us can be found on our website,&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.pintswithjack.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">PintsWithJack.com<\/a>. If you\u2019d like to support us and get fantastic gifts,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patreon.com\/pintswithjack\">please join us on Patreon<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<!--more-->\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"block-2882b493-f1aa-48ab-8db6-3c40f02265fc\">Timestamps<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">00:00 \u2013 <em>Entering \u201cThe Eagle &amp; Child\u201d\u2026 <\/em><br>00:12 \u2013 <em>Welcome <\/em><br>00:39 \u2013 <em>Dr. Louis Markos <\/em><br>07:35 \u2013 <em>Quote-of-the-week <\/em><br>08:01 \u2013 <em>Drink-of-the-week <\/em><br>08:17 \u2013 <em>Discussion: Literary Life <\/em><br>10:52 \u2013 <em>Discussion: Why another book? <\/em><br>13:25 \u2013 <em>Discussion: Spiritual Reading <\/em><br>19:32 \u2013 <em>Discussion: What&#8217;s a myth? <\/em><br>22:18 \u2013 <em>Discussion: Case Study<\/em><br>28:50 \u2013 <em>Discussion: Objections<\/em><br>39:31 \u2013 <em>Discussion: Other World Myths<\/em><br>48:01 \u2013 <em>Discussion: Marvel Myths<\/em><br>52:33 \u2013 <em>Discussion: Owen Barfield <\/em><br>59:10 \u2013 <em>\u201cLast Call\u201d Bell and More Information<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"block-256e7e4a-897b-43e2-a2ed-609bf087c84b\">YouTube Version<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"860\" height=\"484\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/ctz1GBxmKfs?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=en-US&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox\"><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"block-a885e324-ccf9-42f2-9e03-3f3eb5dc7d6b\">After Show Skype Session<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>No Skype Session today!<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"block-27508392-5bf9-4ea7-9a6d-34a4e3476c70\">Show Notes<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"block-27508392-5bf9-4ea7-9a6d-34a4e3476c70\">Biographical Information<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>Dr. Markos is a Professor in English at Houston Baptist University, where he holds the Robert H. Ray Chair in Humanities.<br><br>He first appeared on <em>Pints With Jack <\/em>in <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/2019\/06\/18\/pints-with-jack-s2e22\/\" data-type=\"post\" data-id=\"71590\" target=\"_blank\">Season 2, Episode 22 <\/a>to talk about Heaven and Hell in the Western literature, and you heard him a couple of months ago in <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/2021\/05\/06\/pwj-s4e61\/\" data-type=\"post\" data-id=\"81051\" target=\"_blank\">Episode 61<\/a> talking about Owen Barfield and <em>Saving The Appearances<\/em>.<br><br>He is an authority on C.S. Lewis and has written a huge number of books on the Inklings and ancient literature, and at the end of last year he came out with a new book which we\u2019re going to be talking about today, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Myth-Made-Fact-Mythology-Christian\/dp\/1600513956\">The Myth Made Fact: Reading Greek and Roman Mythology through Christian Eyes<\/a>.<\/p><cite>Biographical information for Dr. Louis Markos<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"block-27508392-5bf9-4ea7-9a6d-34a4e3476c70\">Chit-Chat<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>Dr. Markos spoke about the books he&#8217;s been working on:<ul><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Plato-Christ-Platonic-Thought-Christian\/dp\/0830853049\" target=\"_blank\">From Plato To Christ: How Plantonic Thought Shaped Christian Faith<\/a><\/li><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Ancient-Voices-Insiders-Classical-Greece\/dp\/1734585919\" target=\"_blank\">Ancient Voices: An Insider&#8217;s Look at Classical Greece<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Ancient-Voices-Insiders-Look-Rome\/dp\/1734585994\">Ancient Voices: An Insider&#8217;s Look at Classical Rome<\/a><\/li><li>Ancient Voices: An Insider&#8217;s Look at The Early Church<\/li><\/ul><\/li><li>Dr. Markos and I spoke about engagement with the Early Church and the Pagan world. I mentioned that we&#8217;re having Dr. <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/dritaly.com\" target=\"_blank\">Marcellino D&#8217;Ambrosio<\/a> onto the show later in this season to talk about his book <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/When-Church-Was-Young-audiobook\/dp\/B00M4PZCBG\" target=\"_blank\">When The Church Was Young<\/a>.<\/li><li>When speaking about good teachers, I quoted the Apostolic Exhortation, <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"http:\/\/www.vatican.va\/content\/paul-vi\/en\/apost_exhortations\/documents\/hf_p-vi_exh_19751208_evangelii-nuntiandi.html\" target=\"_blank\">Evangelii Nuntiandi<\/a> (Evangelization in the Modern World):<\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>Modern man listens more willingly to witnesses than to teachers, and if he does listen to teachers, it is because they are witnesses.<\/p><cite>Pope Paul VI, Evangelii Nuntiandi<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This quotation originally comes from an earlier address to the Members of the Consilium de Laicis by Pope Paul VI (2 October 1974).<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"block-27508392-5bf9-4ea7-9a6d-34a4e3476c70\">Quote-of-the-week<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>[God] sent the human race what I call good dreams: I mean those queer stories scattered all through the heathen religions about a god who dies and comes to life again and, by his death, has somehow given new life to men.<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"block-27508392-5bf9-4ea7-9a6d-34a4e3476c70\">Drink-of-the-week<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>The drink-of-the-week for me is a <strong>coffee<\/strong> as we\u2019re recording this on a lazy Saturday morning. Dr. Markos was drinking water.<\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Biography<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>For the people who have only recently started listening to us and haven\u2019t heard Dr. Markos&#8217; episode from Season 2, he gave us a quick recap of his literary life.<\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">The Book<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>Dr. Markos had written about Pagan myths before (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/B001Q9EDTS\/\">From Achilles to Christ: Why Christians Should Read the Pagan Classics<\/a>) so I asked Dr. Markos what made write another book about Pagan literature and asked him what makes this book different from its predecessors.<ul><li>We then spoke about reading the Bible spiritually and Dr. Markos warned us not to do this at the expense of the literal level (cf <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Rudolf_Bultmann\">Rudolf Bultmann<\/a>).<\/li><\/ul><\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>Pre-conversion Lewis said that myths are \u201clies breathed through silver\u201d, so I asked Dr. Markos for his definition of a myth.<ul><li>He spoke about Arche (origins) and Telos (destination) and Etiology.<\/li><\/ul><\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>Dr. Markos talked us through a couple of key myths to explain what he does in his book.<ul><li><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Prometheus\">Prometheus<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Pandora\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Pandora<\/a><\/li><\/ul><\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Objections<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>Some people don\u2019t see the value in myth and Pagan literature and they would ask <em>\u201cCan we really do this? Can we say that Christ is not only the New Joshua and the New Moses, but also the New Achilles and New Odysseus? Can we really say that Jesus not only fulfilled the Hebrew prophecies but also the Pagan myths?\u201d&nbsp;<\/em> Dr. Markos even tells the story of an evangelist who didn\u2019t read any fiction following his conversion! Such an attitude isn\u2019t entirely absent from history, either. The great Church Father and Biblical translator, St. Jerome, famously renounced Pagan literature.&nbsp; I therefore asked Dr. Markos how he would respond to these objections.<\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Other Myths<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>Dr. Markos focusses on Greek and Roman myths (and I recommended the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.parcast.com\/mythology\">Mythology podcast<\/a> as an introduction), so I asked Louis whether he thought  the same principles could be followed for other mythological systems? I had particularly enjoyed <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Norse-Mythology-Neil-Gaiman\/dp\/039360909X\" target=\"_blank\">Neil Gaiman&#8217;s book on Norse Mythology<\/a>.<\/li><li>I\u2019ve often said that superhero movies are our modern myths. I asked Dr. Markos if he agreed and whether we can apply some of the principles from his book to the Marvel Cinematic Universe?<\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Barfield<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>I asked whether Inkling Owen Barfield has anything to say on this subject.<\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">More Information<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Louis-Markos\/e\/B001JSBEBG\" target=\"_blank\">Amazon Author Page<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/channel\/UC1mcYKcQaJDA_a7sFVsHSgg\/featured\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">YouTube Channel<\/a><\/li><\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>We first had Dr. Louis Markos on the show during Season 2 when we spoke about imagery of Heaven and Hell in Western Literature and he recently made an appearance on &#8220;Barfield Month&#8221;. Today he returns once more to talk about his new book, The Myth Made Fact: Reading Greek and Roman Mythology through Christian Eyes.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":81158,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_crdt_document":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[3111],"tags":[2969,5326,2835,5395,4438,5897],"class_list":["post-81149","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-podcast","tag-featured","tag-louis-markos","tag-myth","tag-owen-barfield","tag-the-eagle-and-child-podcast","tag-the-myth-made-fact"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/06\/S4E69-Blog.png","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/81149","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=81149"}],"version-history":[{"count":24,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/81149\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":81584,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/81149\/revisions\/81584"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/81158"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=81149"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=81149"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=81149"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}