{"id":79522,"date":"2021-01-14T00:15:00","date_gmt":"2021-01-14T07:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/?p=79522"},"modified":"2021-01-13T18:16:20","modified_gmt":"2021-01-14T01:16:20","slug":"pwj-s4e29","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/2021\/01\/14\/pwj-s4e29\/","title":{"rendered":"PWJ: S4E29 &#8211; AH &#8211; &#8220;After Hours&#8221; with Holly Ordway"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><a href=\"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/01\/S4E29-YouTube-1.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"860\" height=\"484\" src=\"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/01\/S4E29-YouTube-1.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-79525\" srcset=\"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/01\/S4E29-YouTube-1.png 860w, https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/01\/S4E29-YouTube-1-300x169.png 300w, https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/01\/S4E29-YouTube-1-768x432.png 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 860px) 100vw, 860px\" \/><\/a><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Last year when we had &#8220;Tolkien Month&#8221;, I heard that <a href=\"http:\/\/www.hollyordway.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Dr. Ordway<\/a> was finishing up a new book on Tolkien. Since the book is coming out shortly, she came on the show to talk to us about it and Tolkien&#8217;s reading habits\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>S4E29: &#8220;After Hours&#8221; with Holly Ordway<\/strong>&nbsp;(<a href=\"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/01\/PWJ-S4E29.mp3\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Download<\/a>)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-audio\"><audio controls src=\"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/01\/PWJ-S4E29.mp3\"><\/audio><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\" id=\"block-51396fab-e50d-4cf5-92e3-e840026c934b\">If you enjoy this episode, you can subscribe&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"http:\/\/feeds.feedburner.com\/TheEagleAndChildPodcast\" target=\"_blank\">manually<\/a>, or&nbsp;any place where good podcasts can be found&nbsp;(<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/the-eagle-and-child-podcast-restless-pilgrim\/id1289456381\" target=\"_blank\">iTunes<\/a>,&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/play.google.com\/music\/m\/Ixvobfgi2wk4rkdegdnbdqjjh44?t=The_Eagle_and_Child\" target=\"_blank\">Google Play<\/a>, <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Pints-with-Jack\/dp\/B08K57WLYB\/\" target=\"_blank\">Amazon<\/a>,&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.podbean.com\/podcast-detail\/wqkqe-5e798\/The+Eagle+and+Child\" target=\"_blank\">Podbean<\/a>,&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"http:\/\/www.stitcher.com\/s?fid=159766&amp;refid=stpr\" target=\"_blank\">Stitcher<\/a>,&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/tunein.com\/radio\/The-Eagle-and-Child-p1079872\/\" target=\"_blank\">TuneIn<\/a>&nbsp;and&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/overcast.fm\/itunes1289456381\/pints-with-jack\" target=\"_blank\">Overcast<\/a>), as well as on&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/channel\/UCcYFlFuyOmYL6LcuicqzULw\" target=\"_blank\">YouTube<\/a>. The roadmap for Season 4 is&nbsp;<a href=\"http:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/pints-with-jack-season-4\/\">available here<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\" id=\"block-a56ad4a8-f43a-4986-8d5f-09ffa487daa4\">More information about us can be found on our website,&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.pintswithjack.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">PintsWithJack.com<\/a>. If you\u2019d like to support us and get fantastic gifts,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patreon.com\/pintswithjack\">please join us on Patreon<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<!--more-->\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"block-2882b493-f1aa-48ab-8db6-3c40f02265fc\">Timestamps<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">00:00 \u2013 <em>Entering \u201cThe Eagle &amp; Child\u201d\u2026 <\/em><br>00:11 \u2013 <em>Welcome <\/em><br>01:12 \u2013 <em>Dr. Holly Ordway <\/em><br>02:05 \u2013 <em>Chit Chat <\/em><br>02:51 \u2013 <em>Quote-of-the-week <\/em><br>03:33 \u2013 <em>Drink-of-the-week <\/em><br>03:49 \u2013 <em>Patreon Toast <\/em><br>04:01 \u2013 <em>Interview <\/em><br>49:10 \u2013 <em>&#8220;Last Call&#8221; Bell<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"block-256e7e4a-897b-43e2-a2ed-609bf087c84b\">YouTube Version<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"860\" height=\"484\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/GRK7-N-RmsM?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=en-US&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox\"><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"block-a885e324-ccf9-42f2-9e03-3f3eb5dc7d6b\">After Show Skype Session<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>No Skype Session today!<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"block-27508392-5bf9-4ea7-9a6d-34a4e3476c70\">Show Notes<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"block-9a5c05ab-2df3-4086-b1f7-70d12e5536d9\">Opening Chit-Chat<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Last season we spoke to Dr. Diana Glyer who explained that the established narrative around literary influence of the Inklings was incorrect. It was commonly thought that the Inklings didn\u2019t influence each other, exemplified by Lewis\u2019 comment that <em>&#8220;No one ever influenced Tolkien \u2014 you might as well try to influence a bandersnatch&#8221;<\/em>. Well, today we have on the show Dr. Holly Ordway, and in her new book she asks us to re-evaluate some other narratives surrounding the creator of <em>The Lord of the Rings<\/em>&#8230;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"block-9a5c05ab-2df3-4086-b1f7-70d12e5536d9\">Biographical Information<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>Dr. Holly Ordway is the Fellow of Faith and Culture for the Word on Fire Institute. Her writing, speaking, and teaching at the Institute focuses on imaginative and literary apologetics, and on the work of J.R.R. Tolkien. She is also Visiting Professor of Apologetics at Houston Baptist University. In addition to writing articles, essays, and poems, in pre-COVID days she travelled in the US and internationally as a guest speaker. She has written a number of books: Apologetics and the Christian Imagination: An Integrated Approach to Defending the Faith \u2026and a memoir Not God\u2019s Type: An Atheist Academic Lays Down Her Arms. But her newest book, and the subject of today\u2019s episode, is Tolkien\u2019s Modern Reading: Middle-earth Beyond the Middle Ages.<\/p><cite>Biographical information about Dr. Holly Ordway<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Quote-of-the-week<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p><em>\u201cThose of us who have been true readers all our life seldom fully realise the enormous extension of our being which we owe to authors. We realise it best when we talk with an unliterary friend. He may be full of goodness and good sense but he inhabits a tiny world. In it, we should be suffocated. The man who is contented to be only himself, and therefore less a self, is in prison. <\/em><\/p><p><em>My own eyes are not enough for me, I will see through the eyes of others\u2026. in reading great literature I become a thousand men and yet remain myself. \u201d <\/em><\/p><cite><em>C.S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism<\/em><\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Drink-of-the-week<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>The next thing is our drink-of-the-week, which today is&#8230;<strong><em>Typhoo Tea<\/em><\/strong><em>&#8230;<\/em>which I recently found out was the tea Lewis typically drank.<\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Patreon Toast<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>Finally, we toast one of our Gold-level Patreon supporters. Today we are toasting <strong><em>Kayla Sanderson<\/em><\/strong>:<\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p><em>Kayla, may your life be filled with great literature and, of course, big cups of tea. Cheers!<\/em><\/p><cite>Patreon toast<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"block-27508392-5bf9-4ea7-9a6d-34a4e3476c70\">Discussion<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Biography<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>So when did you first pick up a Tolkien book?<\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Origins<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>As I mentioned in the introduction, you\u2019re bringing out a new book, <em>Tolkien\u2019s Modern Reading: Middle-earth Beyond the Middle Ages<\/em>&#8230;<ul><li>What was the genesis of this book?<\/li><li>Why did people think Tolkien didn&#8217;t read much modern literature?<\/li><\/ul><ul><li>What did Carpenter get wrong and why?<\/li><\/ul><\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Methodology<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>How did you work out Tolkien\u2019s reading habits and whether or not he read a particular book?<\/li><li>Who were some of the people Tolkien read?<\/li><li>Were there any books\/influences you came across which surprised you?<\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Lewis<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>A lot of people express their opinions very boldly about the friendship between Lewis and Tolkien, particularly towards the end of Lewis\u2019 life, as well as Tolkien\u2019s thoughts about Jack\u2019s books. Given that you\u2019ve immersed yourself in the primary sources, I\u2019m really interested to know what the truth actually is.<\/li><li>What did Tolkien actually read of the Narnia Chronicles and what did he actually think?<\/li><li>What about Lewis\u2019 other books?<\/li><li>What can you say about the friendship between Tolkien and Lewis towards the end of lives?<\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Walter Hooper<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>Lewis\u2019 former secretary, Walter Hooper recently passed away. Did you have any contact with him during your studies and your time in Oxford?<\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">More Holly Ordway<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"http:\/\/www.hollyordway.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">Website<\/a><\/li><li>Books<ul><li><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Not-Gods-Type-Atheist-Academic\/dp\/1586179993\" target=\"_blank\"><em>Not God\u2019s Type<\/em> <\/a><\/li><li><em><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Apologetics-Christian-Imagination-Integrated-Defending\/dp\/1945125381\" target=\"_blank\">Apologetics and the Christian Imagination<\/a><\/em><\/li><li><strong>New:<\/strong> <em><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/wordonfire.org\/tolkien\" target=\"_blank\">Tolkien\u2019s Modern Reading<\/a><\/em> (Preorder for a discount!)<\/li><\/ul><\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"860\" height=\"484\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/oNPHF3Av-Pg?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=en-US&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox\"><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Last year when we had &#8220;Tolkien Month&#8221;, I heard that Dr. Ordway was finishing up a new book on Tolkien. Since the book is coming out shortly, she came on the show to talk to us about it and Tolkien&#8217;s reading habits\u2026<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":79524,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_crdt_document":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[3111],"tags":[5519,2969,5779,5335,4438,414,5787],"class_list":["post-79522","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-podcast","tag-diana-glyer","tag-featured","tag-holly-ordway","tag-middle-ages","tag-the-eagle-and-child-podcast","tag-tolkien","tag-tolkiens-modern-reading"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/01\/S4E29-Blog.png","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/79522","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=79522"}],"version-history":[{"count":9,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/79522\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":79615,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/79522\/revisions\/79615"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/79524"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=79522"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=79522"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=79522"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}