{"id":75976,"date":"2020-05-26T00:05:00","date_gmt":"2020-05-26T07:05:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/?p=75976"},"modified":"2020-05-25T22:03:08","modified_gmt":"2020-05-26T05:03:08","slug":"pwj-s3e33","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/2020\/05\/26\/pwj-s3e33\/","title":{"rendered":"PWJ: S3E33 &#8211; AH &#8211; &#8220;After Hours&#8221; with Brenton Dickieson"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"860\" height=\"860\" src=\"http:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/05\/Brenton.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-76263\" srcset=\"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/05\/Brenton.jpg 860w, https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/05\/Brenton-300x300.jpg 300w, https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/05\/Brenton-150x150.jpg 150w, https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/05\/Brenton-768x768.jpg 768w, https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/05\/Brenton-90x90.jpg 90w, https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/05\/Brenton-75x75.jpg 75w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 860px) 100vw, 860px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I&#8217;ve been reading the blog <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/apilgriminnarnia.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">A Pilgrim In Narnia<\/a> for several years now. Today I invited onto the show its author, Dr. Brenton Dickieson to talk about the book we&#8217;ve been reading this season, <em>Till We Have Faces<\/em>. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>S3E33: \u201cAfter Hours\u201d with Brenton Dickieson<\/strong>&nbsp;(<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"http:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/05\/PWJ-S3E33.mp3\" target=\"_blank\">Download<\/a>)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-audio\"><audio controls src=\"http:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/05\/PWJ-S3E33.mp3\"><\/audio><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you enjoy this episode, you can subscribe&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"http:\/\/feeds.feedburner.com\/TheEagleAndChildPodcast\" target=\"_blank\">manually<\/a>, or&nbsp;any place where good podcasts can be found&nbsp;(<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/the-eagle-and-child-podcast-restless-pilgrim\/id1289456381\" target=\"_blank\">iTunes<\/a>,&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/play.google.com\/music\/m\/Ixvobfgi2wk4rkdegdnbdqjjh44?t=The_Eagle_and_Child\" target=\"_blank\">Google Play<\/a>,&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.podbean.com\/podcast-detail\/wqkqe-5e798\/The+Eagle+and+Child\" target=\"_blank\">Podbean<\/a>,&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"http:\/\/www.stitcher.com\/s?fid=159766&amp;refid=stpr\" target=\"_blank\">Stitcher<\/a>,&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/tunein.com\/radio\/The-Eagle-and-Child-p1079872\/\" target=\"_blank\">TuneIn<\/a>&nbsp;and&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/overcast.fm\/itunes1289456381\/pints-with-jack\" target=\"_blank\">Overcast<\/a>), as well as on&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/channel\/UCcYFlFuyOmYL6LcuicqzULw\" target=\"_blank\">YouTube<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">More information about us can be found on our website,&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.pintswithjack.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">PintsWithJack.com<\/a>. If you\u2019d like to support us and get fantastic gifts,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patreon.com\/pintswithjack\">please join us on Patreon<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The roadmap for Season 3 is&nbsp;<a href=\"http:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/pints-with-jack-season-3\/\">available here<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<!--more-->\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Time Stamps<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">00:00:00 &#8211; <em>Entering &#8220;The Eagle &amp; Child&#8221;\u2026<\/em><br>00:00:10 &#8211; <em>Welcome<\/em><br>00:00:40 &#8211; <em>Biographical Information<\/em><br>00:01:46 &#8211; <em>Drink-of-the-week<\/em><br>00:03:21 &#8211; <em>Quote-of-the-week<\/em><br>00:03:44 &#8211; <em>Patreon supporter toast<\/em><br>00:04:00 &#8211; <em>Introduction to Lewis<\/em><br>00:12:00 &#8211; <em>Favourite C.S. Lewis work<\/em><br>00:13:16 &#8211; <em>Why did you start a blog?<\/em><br>00:18:50 &#8211; <em>What is it you love about Till We Have Faces?<\/em><br>00:27:27 &#8211; <em>Why is it hard to understand?<\/em><br>00:34:03 &#8211; <em>Orual vs. King Trom<\/em><br>00:43:11 &#8211; <em>Sympathy for Paganism<\/em><br>00:51:48 &#8211; <em>Why should your heart not dance?<\/em><br>00:59:48 &#8211; <em>&#8220;Last Call&#8221; Bell<\/em><br>01:00:40 &#8211; <em>Brenton&#8217;s Website<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>YouTube Version<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed-youtube wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"860\" height=\"484\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/_oHEFsypbD0?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=en-US&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox\"><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>After Show Skype Session<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Rather than talking with Matt on today&#8217;s Skype Session, I chatted with my friend Joe Heschemeyer (<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.cathpod.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">The Catholic Podcast<\/a> | <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"http:\/\/shamelesspopery.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">Shameless Popery<\/a>) from <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.schooloffaith.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">Holy Family School Of Faith<\/a>. Joe was on the show <a href=\"http:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/2018\/12\/11\/the-eagle-and-child-s1e43\/\">back in Season 1<\/a> when he spoke to us about &#8220;<em>theosis<\/em>&#8220;. Today he joined me for a Skype Session to talk about the book he has just released, entitled <em><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Who-Am-Lord-Finding-Identity\/dp\/1681923270\" target=\"_blank\">&#8220;Who Am I, Lord? Finding Your Identity in Christ&#8221;<\/a><\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed-youtube wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio wp-embed-aspect-16-9\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"860\" height=\"484\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/PCbq85_18pk?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=en-US&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox\"><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Show Notes<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;I shared some biographical details about Dr. Dickieson, the author of <a href=\"https:\/\/apilgriminnarnia.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">A Pilgrim In Narnia<\/a>:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>Besides teaching in the literature department at Signum University, Brenton Dickieson is Adjunct Instructor in Literature at The King\u2019s College in New York City, Sessional Professor in the Centre for the Study of Christianity and Culture at the University of Prince Edward Island, and Instructor in Spiritual Theology at Regent College in Vancouver, BC. He also does freelance speaking and writing and is the author of the popular Faith, Fiction, and Fantasy blog <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/aPilgrimInNarnia.com\" target=\"_blank\">A Pilgrim In Narnia<\/a>. After completing a Masters degree in biblical literature at Regent College, Brenton moved with his wife Kerry and his son Nicolas to their native home in Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island to teach and write. His academic interests include how the creation of fictional universes helps in spiritual formation, theological exploration, and cultural criticism. He has just completed his PhD at the University of Chester, focussing his work on C.S. Lewis, J.R.R. Tolkien, and the Inklings.<\/p><cite>Biography of Dr. Brenton Dickieson<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;The drink-of-the-week was Tetley&#8217;s Tea. Dr. Dickieson was drinking <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/redislandcider.com\/our-ciders\/father-walkers\" target=\"_blank\">Father Walker&#8217;s Dry Cider<\/a> from <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/redislandcider.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">Red Island Cider<\/a>, with the following explanation:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>C.S. Lewis was a cider drinker and chose the Inklings\u2019 pub because of its hard cider. I am drinking something local dry cider called Father Walker\u2019s by Red Island CIder. Fr Walker\u2019s is named for a Church Picnic here in Prince Edward Island in 1898. A local priest, Father Walker, was able to procure a large number of barrels of non-alcoholic apple cider for the families. Little did he know that the non-boozy juice would turn out to be hard cider. The picnic was one of the most successful and infamous events in the area\u2019s history.<\/p><cite>Brenton Dickieson<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;The quote-of-the-week was pilgrim-themed:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>One road leads home and a thousand roads lead into the wilderness.<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, The Pilgrim\u2019s Regress<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;We toasted Anthony Petz. My your heart always be as full as my cup of tea, my friend&#8230;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;Dr. Dickieson told the story of how he first read C.S. Lewis. He tried several times to read <em>Mere Christianity<\/em>, but struggled. He was then thrown in the deep end when he was told to teach Japanese students English using <em>The Great Divorce<\/em>! When I asked him to name his favourite C.S. Lewis book and he correctly answered that it is <em>The Great Divorce<\/em>!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;We spoke about the inception of his website, <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/apilgriminnarnia.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">A Pilgrim In Narnia<\/a>. After reading <em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/dp\/B00HU5NG3G\">Letters to an American Lady<\/a><\/em>, he started his blog as a sandbox to test out ideas in public and invite more people into the conversation. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;We then started discussing <em>Till We Have Faces<\/em>&#8230; <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;In one of his <a href=\"https:\/\/apilgriminnarnia.com\/2020\/02\/10\/twhf-hard\/\">recent articles<\/a> Brenton said that, while he loves this book, he hasn&#8217;t written much about it on his blog until recently, possibly because he doesn&#8217;t fully understand it! I asked him to share some of the questions which plague him while he reads it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;Dr. Dickieson wrote <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/apilgriminnarnia.com\/2020\/02\/17\/orual-and-the-king-of-glome\/\" target=\"_blank\">an article<\/a> in February where he compared and contrasted Orual and her father, King Trom. I asked him what he saw as the similarities and differences between father and daughter. He also pointed out a link between Orual and Jadis. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;Brenton also posted another article at the end of February entitled <em><a href=\"https:\/\/apilgriminnarnia.com\/2020\/02\/24\/a-peasant-pagan-prayer-twhf\/\">\u201cA Peasant Pagan Prayer\u201d<\/a><\/em>. I asked Dr. Dickieson to speak about the empathy which Lewis seems to show to the disciples of Ungit. I spoke about my desire to have C.S. Lewis sit down with <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Jerome\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">St. Jerome<\/a> to help him be less ashamed of loving Pagan literature.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;In April, Brenton posted <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/apilgriminnarnia.com\/2020\/04\/28\/dance-long-leap-speak-conquer\/\" target=\"_blank\">an article<\/a> which was prompted by a Zoom digital liturgy which a friend had made for Vespers. I asked him what it was it that struck him about that liturgy and how it connects to <em>Till We Have Faces<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>&#8220;Why should your heart not dance?&#8221;<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part I, Chapter 9)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;We had intended to talk about <em>The Four Loves<\/em> and <em>The Screwtape Letters<\/em>, but we decided to save that for another episode! Dr. Dickieson will be coming back on the show next season.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;I asked Dr. Dickieson if there&#8217;s  anything else in particular he&#8217;d like to talk about with regards to <em>Till We Have Faces<\/em>. You can read more of Dr. Dickieson&#8217;s work at <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/apilgriminnaria.com\" target=\"_blank\">A Pilgrim In Narnia<\/a>. He can also be found on <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/BrentonDana\" target=\"_blank\">Twitter<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/bdickieson\/\">Instagram<\/a>. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;(Between recording and publishing, more articles about <em>Till We Have Faces<\/em> was posted on Dr. Dickieson&#8217;s blog, both <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/apilgriminnarnia.com\/2020\/05\/19\/naturally-holy\/\" target=\"_blank\">a guest post by Katie Stevenson<\/a> and <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/apilgriminnarnia.com\/2020\/04\/15\/superinfection\/\" target=\"_blank\">one connecting Lewis&#8217; book to COVID-19<\/a>).<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I&#8217;ve been reading the blog A Pilgrim In Narnia for several years now. Today I invited onto the show its author, Dr. Brenton Dickieson to talk about the book we&#8217;ve been reading this season, Till We Have Faces. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":76675,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_crdt_document":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[3111],"tags":[5648,5649,1914,2969,4438,4834],"class_list":["post-75976","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-podcast","tag-a-pilgrim-in-narnia","tag-brenton-dickieson","tag-c-s-lewis","tag-featured","tag-the-eagle-and-child-podcast","tag-till-we-have-faces"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/05\/BrentonFeatured.jpg","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/75976","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=75976"}],"version-history":[{"count":24,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/75976\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":76787,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/75976\/revisions\/76787"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/76675"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=75976"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=75976"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=75976"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}