{"id":75606,"date":"2020-04-14T03:00:00","date_gmt":"2020-04-14T10:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/?p=75606"},"modified":"2020-04-20T17:37:33","modified_gmt":"2020-04-21T00:37:33","slug":"pwj-s3e23","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/2020\/04\/14\/pwj-s3e23\/","title":{"rendered":"PWJ: S3E23  \u2013 TWHF (Pt 2 \u2013 Ch 3) &#8211; \u201cThe Judgement of Orual\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"860\" height=\"480\" src=\"http:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/04\/Judgement.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-75956\" srcset=\"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/04\/Judgement.png 860w, https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/04\/Judgement-300x167.png 300w, https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/04\/Judgement-768x429.png 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 860px) 100vw, 860px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">After failing to steel a fleece from one of the rams of the gods, Orual finally gets her day in court! She reads her complaint to the gods and finally receives her answer&#8230;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>S3E23: \u201cThe Judgement of Orual\u201d<\/strong>&nbsp;(<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"http:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/04\/PWJ-S3E23.mp3\" target=\"_blank\">Download<\/a>)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-audio\"><audio controls src=\"http:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/04\/PWJ-S3E23.mp3\"><\/audio><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you enjoy this episode, you can subscribe&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"http:\/\/feeds.feedburner.com\/TheEagleAndChildPodcast\" target=\"_blank\">manually<\/a>, or&nbsp;any place where good podcasts can be found&nbsp;(<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/the-eagle-and-child-podcast-restless-pilgrim\/id1289456381\" target=\"_blank\">iTunes<\/a>,&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/play.google.com\/music\/m\/Ixvobfgi2wk4rkdegdnbdqjjh44?t=The_Eagle_and_Child\" target=\"_blank\">Google Play<\/a>, <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.podbean.com\/podcast-detail\/wqkqe-5e798\/The+Eagle+and+Child\" target=\"_blank\">Podbean<\/a>, <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"http:\/\/www.stitcher.com\/s?fid=159766&amp;refid=stpr\" target=\"_blank\">Stitcher<\/a>, <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/tunein.com\/radio\/The-Eagle-and-Child-p1079872\/\" target=\"_blank\">TuneIn<\/a> and <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/overcast.fm\/itunes1289456381\/pints-with-jack\" target=\"_blank\">Overcast<\/a>), as well as on&nbsp;<a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/channel\/UCcYFlFuyOmYL6LcuicqzULw\" target=\"_blank\">YouTube<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you\u2019d like to support us and get fantastic gifts,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patreon.com\/pintswithjack\">please join us on Patreon<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The Season 3 roadmap is&nbsp;<a href=\"http:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/pints-with-jack-season-3\/\">available here<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<!--more-->\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Time Stamps<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">01:32 &#8211; <em>Drink-of-the-week<\/em><br>03:03 &#8211; <em>Quote-of-the-week<\/em><br>03:45 &#8211; <em>Patron Toast<\/em><br>05:22 &#8211; <em>Charles Williams and co-inherence<\/em><br>08:27 &#8211; <em>Chapter Summary<\/em><br>48:15 &#8211; <em>Closing remarks<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>YouTube Version<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed-youtube wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"860\" height=\"484\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/OA2XQpBJ-14?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=en-US&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox\"><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/div><figcaption>Art by <a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/davehudson.artstation.com\/projects\/O0XBe\" target=\"_blank\">Dave Hudson<\/a><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>After Show Skype Session<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This Season, after each episode, Matt and I will be recording a short Skype conversation about one particular topic that was raised during the podcast:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed-youtube wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"860\" height=\"484\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/GhfqDZtqSLY?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=en-US&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox\"><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Show Notes<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;I was joined by Matt &#8220;A Bull in a Bear Market&#8221; Bush.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;Marie and I have been watching &#8220;Jojo Rabbit&#8221;:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed-youtube wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"860\" height=\"484\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/tL4McUzXfFI?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=en-US&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox\"><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;For the drink-of-the-week, Matt was drinking Bacardi &amp; Coke. I was drinking my Engagement Scotch, Glenmorangie La Santa.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;The quote-of-the-week was as follows:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>\u201cYou\u2019ll say (you\u2019ve been whispering it to me these forty years) that I\u2019d signs enough her palace was real, could have known the truth if I\u2019d wanted to. But how could I want to know it?\u201d<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;We toasted <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patreon.com\/pintswithjack\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Patreon<\/a> supporter, Ted Dougherty.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;We reminded everyone to submit their questions for Andrew Lazo in anticipation of our next interview with him&#8230;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;Before we got down to this week&#8217;s chapter, I commented that I had been reading <em>\u201cThe Fellowship: The literary lives of the Inklings\u201d<\/em> by Zaleski &amp; Zaleski. I said that something jumped out at me when they were talking about Charles Williams. &nbsp;Charles Williams was one of the Inklings and he taught something called \u201cco-inherence\u201d. I\u2019m not going to do it justice, but here\u2019s the Wikipedia entry:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>Co-inherence was a term used in Patristic theology to describe the relationship between the human and divine natures of Jesus Christ and the relationship between the persons of the blessed Trinity. <br><br>Williams extended the term to include the ideal relationship between the individual parts of God&#8217;s creation, including human beings. It is our mutual indwelling: Christ in us and we in Christ, interdependent. It is also the web of interrelationships, social and economic and ecological, by which the social fabric and the natural world function. But especially for Williams, co-inherence is a way of talking about the Body of Christ and the communion of saints\u2026 <br><br>He proposed an order, the Companions of the Co-inherence, who would practice substitution and exchange, \u2026truly bearing one another&#8217;s burdens, being willing to sacrifice and to forgive, living from and for one another in Christ.<\/p><cite>Wikipedia article on Charles Williams<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you recall from our discussions with Patti Callahan, Lewis prayed to take on some of his wife\u2019s suffering when she had bone cancer and, as he lost bone density, she regained it. All this is to say that I think something of this idea might be going on between Orual and Psyche. These visions describe challenges which were traditionally the labours of Psyche, not Orual. I think Orual is somehow mystically sharing in Psyche\u2019s burdens\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;Matt and I talked about an email sent to us from Patti Callahan congratulating Matt on his recent talk at Notre Dame.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;I then offered my summary of today&#8217;s chapter:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>Orual is given time to ponder the events of the last few days. She concludes that she must make her soul beautiful, but she quickly discovers her inability to do so without divine help. <br><br>She has a vision of golden rams where she tries to take some of their wool. They charge her while another woman gleans their wool caught on the hedge. <br><br>Orual feels detached from her day-to-day life, but comforts herself with the certainty of her love for Psyche. She then has another vision where she&#8217;s seeking the water of death in a desert. She comes to a mountain where is taken into a cave in order to read her complaint against the gods. Rather than reading her book, she reads an older, smaller book, over again and again. Eventually the judge stops her and asks her if she has received her answer. She responds that she has&#8230;<\/p><cite>150-word summary of Part II, Chapter 3.<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;The last few days have been rather intense for Orual. Fortunately, she says that:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>\u201c&#8230;the gods left me for some days to chew the strange bread they had given me. I was Ungit. What did it mean? Do the gods flow in and out of us as they flow in and out of each other? And again, they would not let me die till I had died\u201d<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">She thinks about religious initiations in the Greeklands <em>\u201cwhereby a man was said to die and live again before the soul left the body\u201d<\/em>.&nbsp; She recalls the conversation Socrates had with his friends before he drank the hemlock, saying that <em>\u201ctrue wisdom is the skill and practice of death\u201d<\/em>. She supposes that here he\u2019s referring to the death of our passions, desires and vain opinions. She then suddenly thinks she can see clearly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>To say that I was Ungit meant that I was as ugly in soul as she; greedy, blood-gorged. But if I practiced true philosophy, as Socrates meant it, I should change my ugly soul into a fair one. And this, the gods helping me, I would do. I would set about it at once. &#8230;but would they help? Nevertheless I must begin.<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;So she tries hard to be good, but it doesn\u2019t go very well&#8230;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>I would set out boldly each morning to be just and calm and wise in all my thoughts and acts; but before they had finished dressing me I would find that I was back (and knew not how long I had been back) in some old rage, resentment, gnawing fantasy, or sullen bitterness. I could not hold out half an hour.<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This reminded me of what Jack wrote in <em>Mere Christianity<\/em>:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>No man knows how bad he is till he has tried very hard to be good.<\/p><cite>Mere Christianity (Book III, Chapter 10)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Orual compares it to when she tried to fix her appearance, saying:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>I could mend my soul no more than my face.<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">She realizes that she can\u2019t do this unless the gods help her and she wonders why they don\u2019t. She thinks that:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>&#8230;the gods will not love you (however you try to pleasure them, and whatever you suffer) unless you have that beauty of soul.&nbsp;<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Basically, she thinks all of this is predetermined:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>In either race, for the love of men or the love of a god, the winners and losers are marked out from birth.<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So, she\u2019s gone from thinking that she can change <strong>everything<\/strong>, to thinking that she can change <strong>nothing<\/strong>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;Orual then goes into her room at around 1pm and has a vision. She\u2019s standing by a great river in a gorgeous land. On the opposite bank she sees a flock of rams:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>\u201c&#8230;high as horses, mightily horned, and their fleeces such bright gold&#8230;\u201d<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">She recognizes that these are the rams of the gods. She believes that, if she can steal one golden fleece from their sides, she\u2019ll have the beauty she desires.&nbsp;She swims to the other side, where the flocked charges at her:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>&#8230;a solid wall of living gold. And with terrible force their curled horns struck me and knocked me flat and their hoofs trampled me&#8230;<br><br>They were not doing it in anger. They rushed over me in their joy \u2014 perhaps they did not see me \u2014 certainly I was nothing in their minds. I understood it well. They butted and trampled me because their gladness led them on; the Divine Nature wounds and perhaps destroys us merely by being what it is. We call it the wrath of the gods; as if the great cataract in Phars were angry with every fly it sweeps down in its green thunder.<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This land is like the foothills of Heaven in <em>The Great Divorce<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;Orual eventually is able to stand back up. It\u2019s then that she sees someone else there, a mortal woman who doesn\u2019t seem to see her. She walks along the hedge of the field, picking the wool which had been caught on the thorns as they rushed at Orual. This causes Orual to despair:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>What I had sought in vain by meeting the joyous and terrible brutes, she took at her leisure. She won without effort what utmost effort would not win for me. I now despaired of ever ceasing to be Ungit.<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;Orual seems to come out of the vision. She tells us that she went about her daily life and with the rest of the world oblivious to the turmoil inside her. Although her judgements were thought even wiser and more just than before, she is disconnected from it all, describing people as being <em>\u201cmore like shadows than real men\u201d<\/em>. Although she seeks justice, she doesn\u2019t really care about their petty squabbles. She seems very detached. She has one comfort remaining:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>I had at least loved Psyche truly. There, if nowhere else, I had the right of it and the gods were in the wrong. And as a prisoner in a dungeon or a sick man on his bed makes much of any little shred of pleasure he still has, so I made much of this.<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;On a particularly tiresome day at work, she takes this very book&#8230;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>&#8230;and went out into the garden to comfort myself, and gorge myself with comfort, by reading over how I had cared for Psyche and taught her and tried to save her and wounded myself for her sake.<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As she opens the book, she has another vision\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>I was walking over burning sands, carrying an empty bowl\u2026 I must find the spring that rises from the river that flows in the dead-lands, and fill it with the water of death and bring it back without spilling a drop and give it to Ungit. &#8230;if I did all the tasks she set me perhaps she would let me go free.<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;She walks through the desert in the noonday sun for what seems like a hundred years. Eventually she arrives at the foot of some great mountains which were covered:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>&#8230;innumerable serpents and scorpions that scuttled and slithered over them continually. The place was a huge torture chamber, but the instruments were all living.<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Knowing the well to be in the heart of the mountain, she dispairs.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;She then sees an eagle overhead, sent by the gods. It lands nearby. Reminder her something of the priest, the bird asks her who she is:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>&#8220;Orual, Queen of Glome,&#8221; said I. <br><br>&#8220;Then it is not you that I was sent to help. What is that roll you carry in your hands?&#8221; I now saw, with great dismay, that what I had been carrying all this time was not a bowl but a book. This ruined everything. <br><br>&#8220;It is my complaint against the gods,&#8221; said I. The eagle clapped his wings and lifted his head and cried out with a loud voice, &#8220;She&#8217;s come at last. Here is the woman who has a complaint against the gods.&#8221; \u2026 &#8220;Come into court. Your case is to be heard.&#8221;<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He doesn\u2019t seem to care about her being royalty.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;Orual then tells us that \u201cdark things like men\u201d came out of the mountain and hustled her forward. Orual writes:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>I was dragged and pushed and sometimes lifted, up among the rocks, till at last a great black hole yawned before me. &#8220;Bring her in. The court waits,&#8221; came the voices. And with a sudden shock of cold I was hurried in out of the burning sunlight into the dark inwards of the mountain, and then further and further in, always in haste, always passed from hand to hand, and always with that din of shouts: &#8220;Here she is \u2014 She&#8217;s come at last \u2014 To the judge, to the judge.&#8221; Then the voices changed and grew quieter; and now it was, &#8220;Let her go. Make her stand up. Silence in the court. Silence for her complaint.&#8221;<\/p><p><\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I compared this scene to the latest Star Wars movie, <em>The Rise of Skywalker<\/em>:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"860\" height=\"484\" src=\"http:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/04\/Rise-of-Skywalker.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-76065\" srcset=\"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/04\/Rise-of-Skywalker.jpg 860w, https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/04\/Rise-of-Skywalker-300x169.jpg 300w, https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/04\/Rise-of-Skywalker-768x432.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 860px) 100vw, 860px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Also, remember the story of the Ungit stone coming up from the earth?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;In the dull light, Orual sees that she\u2019s standing on a pillar of rock. She is surrounded by a great, silent assembly of ghosts. She sees many faces she recognizes: Batt, the King, the Fox, and Argan. She then sees the judge:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>&#8230;on the same level with me, though far away, sat the judge. Male or female, who could say? Its face was veiled. It was covered from crown to toe in sweepy black.<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The judge orders her to be uncovered and she is stripped naked.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>The old crone with her Ungit face stood naked before those countless gazers. No thread to cover me, no bowl in my hand to hold the water of death; only my book.<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Matt mentioned this final talk by Fulton Sheen about meeting Christ:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed-youtube wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"860\" height=\"484\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/OiT9p7o0bxA?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=en-US&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox\"><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;The judge orders her to read her complaint. At this, she realizes that she\u2019s not holding her book. It\u2019s an old <em>\u201clittle, shabby, crumpled thing\u201d<\/em>. I think it represents her soul. She finds herself unrolling it:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>It was written all over inside, but the hand was not like mine. It was all a vile scribble \u2014 each stroke mean and yet savage, like the snarl in my father&#8217;s voice, like the ruinous faces one could make out in the Ungit stone.<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;Against her will, she says <em>\u201cI heard myself reading it\u201d<\/em>\u2026 Orual admits to seeing the god and his house. She says <em>\u201cI could have endured it if you were things like Ungit and the Shadowbrute\u201d<\/em>. Orual articulates her jealousy:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>You know well that I never really began to hate you until Psyche began talking of her palace and her lover and her husband. Why did you lie to me? You said a brute would devour her. Well, why didn&#8217;t it? I&#8217;d have wept for her and buried what was left and built her a tomb and . . . and. . . . But to steal her love from me! Can it be that you really don&#8217;t understand? &#8230;Those we love best \u2014 whoever&#8217;s most worth loving \u2014 those are the very ones you&#8217;ll pick out. Oh, I can see it happening, age after age, and growing worse and worse the more you reveal your beauty: the son turning his back on the mother and the bride on her groom, stolen away by this everlasting calling, calling, calling of the gods. Taken where we can&#8217;t follow.<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Rather sounds like Jesus\u2019 words: <\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>\u201cDo not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; \u2026\u201d<\/p><cite>Matthew 10:33-35<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;We spoke about a little bit about what we can say about the situation where God takes someone you love.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;Orual continues her complaint:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>It would be far better for us if you were foul and ravening. We&#8217;d rather you drank their blood than stole their hearts. We&#8217;d rather they were ours and dead than yours and made immortal. <br><br>&#8230;But to steal her love from me, to make her see things I couldn&#8217;t see . . . oh, you&#8217;ll say (you&#8217;ve been whispering it to me these forty years) that I&#8217;d signs enough her palace was real, could have known the truth if I&#8217;d wanted. But how could I want to know it? Tell me that. The girl was mine. What right had you to steal her away into your dreadful heights? You&#8217;ll say I was jealous. Jealous of Psyche? Not while she was mine\u2026 Did you ever remember whose the girl was? She was mine. Mine. Do you not know what the word means? Mine! You&#8217;re thieves, seducers. That&#8217;s my wrong. I&#8217;ll not complain (not now) that you&#8217;re blood-drinkers and man-eaters. I&#8217;m past that. . . .&#8221;<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The judge eventually stops her:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>Now I knew that I had been reading it over and over \u2014 perhaps a dozen times. I would have read it forever, quick as I could, starting the first word again almost before the last was out of my mouth, if the judge had not stopped me. And the voice I read it in was strange to my ears. There was given to me a certainty that this, at last, was my real voice.<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We\u2019re told that there was a long silence\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>At last the judge spoke. &#8220;Are you answered?&#8221; he said.<\/p><p>&#8220;Yes,&#8221; said I.<\/p><cite>C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces (Part II, Chapter 3)<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;When talking about Orual&#8217;s false self being stripped away, Matt referenced a book, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Telling-Secrets-Frederick-Buechner-ebook\/dp\/B000W93CKE\/\">Telling Secrets<\/a> by Frederick Buechner and I quoted a song by the band <em>Casting Crowns<\/em>:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>Is there anyone that fails? <br>Is there anyone that falls? <br>Am I the only one in church today, feeling so small? <br>Cause when I take a look around <br>Everybody seems so strong I know they&#8217;ll soon discover <br>That I don&#8217;t belong <br>So I tuck it all away <br>Like everything&#8217;s OK <br>If I make em all believe it <br>Maybe I&#8217;ll believe it too <br>So with a painted grin <br>I&#8217;ll play the part again <br>So everyone will see me T<br>he way that I see them <br><br>Are we happy plastic people <br>Under shiny plastic steeples <br>With walls around our weakness <br>And smiles that hide our pain <br>But the invitations open <br>To every heart that&#8217;s been broken <br>Maybe then we close the curtain <br>On our stained glass masquerade<\/p><cite>Casting Crowns, Stained Glass Mascurade<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u2022&nbsp;We\u2019d like to thank all our Patreon supporters, particularly our top-tier supporters Kate and Rowdy.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>After failing to steel a fleece from one of the rams of the gods, Orual finally gets her day in court! She reads her complaint to the gods and finally receives her answer&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":75957,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_crdt_document":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[3111],"tags":[1914,2969,5544,4430,5645,4438,4834],"class_list":["post-75606","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-podcast","tag-c-s-lewis","tag-featured","tag-orual","tag-pints-with-jack","tag-rams","tag-the-eagle-and-child-podcast","tag-till-we-have-faces"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/04\/Judgement-1.png","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/75606","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=75606"}],"version-history":[{"count":26,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/75606\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":76129,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/75606\/revisions\/76129"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/75957"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=75606"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=75606"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=75606"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}