{"id":5955,"date":"2011-10-09T07:00:27","date_gmt":"2011-10-09T14:00:27","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/?p=5955"},"modified":"2015-02-02T15:34:18","modified_gmt":"2015-02-02T22:34:18","slug":"theres-something-about-mary-part-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/2011\/10\/09\/theres-something-about-mary-part-2\/","title":{"rendered":"There’s something about Mary… (Part 2 of 3)"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"\"<\/a>Yesterday<\/a> I began writing a response to a comment which was left by someone named Kelley on an article<\/a> I wrote about Blessed\u00a0Mary (Luke 1:42<\/a>). This was the comment:<\/p>\n

“‘My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.’ If Mary were sinless, why did she need a Savior? Wouldn’t she be lying? <\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Did she realize Romans 3:23 All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God? When she compared herself to the law of a holy God, had she realized she had formerly, lied, coveted, dishonored her parents by not always obeying them, etc. and like every single person needs a Savior? There are none good, no not one (Romans 3), except Jesus. 2 Corinthians 5:21 For He (God the Father) made Him (Jesus) who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. Also see Romans 11:6. Thank you Jesus, my Savior.”<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Today I’d like to look at some of the Scriptural evidence Kelley uses to develop the case against Mary’s sinlessness.<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

Absolutely All & Absolutely No One<\/h2>\n

Kelley wrote:<\/p>\n

Did [Mary] realize Romans 3:23 [says that] All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God? …There are none good, no not one (Romans 3), except Jesus<\/em><\/em><\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

In the passages that Kelley cites, Paul is explaining the relationship between the Jews, the Gentiles, sin and salvation. I think Kelley’s issue comes from putting an awful lot of emphasis on certain words: “<\/span>there is no one<\/span> who does good,\u00a0not even one<\/span>…for all<\/span>\u00a0have sinned”<\/span>. <\/em><\/em>I think it’s fair to say that Kelley is interpreting the underlined words in an absolute,\u00a0literalistic sense.<\/p>\n

In Kelley’s quotation above, there are two sections of Romans 3 which are used. Let’s look at those passages each in context and see if this literalistic reading stands up to\u00a0scrutiny…<\/p>\n

#1: “There is no one who does good…not even one…(well, maybe a few)”<\/h2>\n

The first section that Kelley quotes is found in the following context:<\/p>\n

“What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.\u00a0As it is written:\u00a0 ‘There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands;\u00a0there is no one who seeks God.\u00a0All have turned away,\u00a0they have together become worthless;\u00a0there is no one who does good,\u00a0not even one<\/span>‘ “<\/em><\/em>\u00a0– Romans 3:9-12<\/span><\/p>\n

In this passage Paul says that\u00a0“There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands;\u00a0there is no one who seeks God”<\/em><\/span>. I wonder if Kelley would\u00a0interpret\u00a0this verse with the same absolute,\u00a0literalistic sense that Kelley does in the rest of the passage. Consistently applying this standard of interpretation causes problems when you compare Romans 3 with other parts of Scripture:<\/p>\n

“In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron.\u00a0Both of them were righteous in the sight of God<\/span>, observing all the Lord\u2019s commands and decrees blamelessly<\/span>.”<\/em>\u00a0– Luke 1:5-6<\/span><\/p>\n

Also, if the statement that “There is…no one who seeks God”<\/span><\/em> is meant in an absolute sense, wouldn’t that also mean that Kelley<\/em> doesn’t seek God?<\/p>\n

What Paul is quoting here in Romans is a section of the Old Testament (“As it is written: …”<\/em><\/span>). \u00a0Here is the text he quotes in its original context:<\/p>\n

“The fool\u00a0says in his heart,\u00a0<\/em><\/span>
\n\u00a0 \u00a0‘There is no God’\u00a0<\/em><\/span>
\nThey are corrupt, their deeds are vile;\u00a0<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

The LORD looks down from heaven
\non all mankind
\nto see if there are any who understand,
\nany who seek God
\n<\/span><\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

All have turned away, all have become corrupt;
\nthere is no one who does good,\u00a0<\/span>
\nnot even one”<\/span><\/em>\u00a0–\u00a0Psalm 14:1, 3<\/span><\/p>\n

Oh dear…things do look pretty bleak. It really does look like there is nobody good on earth at all! However, later in the psalm we read:<\/p>\n

“They devour my people<\/span> as though eating bread;<\/em><\/span>
\nthey never call on the LORD.<\/em><\/span>
\nBut there they are, overwhelmed with dread,<\/em><\/span>
\nfor God is present in\u00a0the company of the righteous<\/span>.<\/em><\/span>
\nYou evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor,<\/em><\/span>
\nbut the LORD is their refuge.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion!<\/em><\/span>
\nWhen the LORD restores his people<\/span>,<\/em><\/span>
\nlet Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad!”<\/em>\u00a0– Psalm 14:4-7<\/span><\/p>\n

Reading the rest of this psalm makes it clear that hyperbole is being used in the first section. The world is not<\/em>\u00a0completely, absolutely and totally made up of evildoers. The people he is describing are those who\u00a0“who say ‘There is no God'”<\/span>. <\/em>The psalmist doesn’t identify himself with that group and he also identifies another group of people whom he calls “the righteous”<\/span><\/em>.\u00a0So, when a poet says that\u00a0“there is no one who does good,\u00a0not even one”<\/em><\/span>\u00a0he’s not meant to be taken literally…<\/p>\n

So, that’s Passage #1 covered, but what about Passage #2?<\/p>\n

#2: “All have sinned…(well, mostly all…)”<\/h2>\n

The\u00a0next bit of Romans that Kelley quotes is as follows:<\/p>\n

“… There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,\u00a0for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God<\/span>,\u00a0and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”<\/em>\u00a0– Romans 3:22-23<\/span><\/p>\n

So what about this “all<\/span> have sinned”<\/span><\/em>\u00a0stuff? Surely that’s straight-forward enough? This is absolute proof that Mary couldn’t be sinless.\u00a0It means that every single human being that has ever lived has committed personal sin, right? Well…no, not quite… Actually, despite what is written, Kelley adds an exception to this passage:<\/p>\n

Did [Mary] realize Romans 3:23 [says that] All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God? …There are none good, no not one (Romans 3), <\/em><\/em><\/em>except Jesus<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

The part that I’ve underlined in not in Romans 3! Paul doesn’t explicitly exempt Jesus from his statement that\u00a0“all<\/span>\u00a0have sinned”<\/span>\u00a0<\/em>. Rather, that was something Kelley added, and quite rightly so. However, from this we can conclude that when Paul says that “all<\/span> have sinned”<\/em><\/span> he didn’t necessarily mean literally every single person. If there is room for one unwritten exception, then why not more? Is it out of the realms of possibility that there could be others?<\/p>\n

What about the unborn? What about babies? What about little children before the age of reason? Have they committed personal sin? The answer has to be “no”. So, if this “all”<\/span> doesn’t apply to the unborn, infants, those before the age of reason, as well as Jesus, the New Adam, is it really out of the realms of possibility that it might also not apply to Mary, the New Eve?<\/p>\n

That’ll do for today. I’ll finish this up tomorrow.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Part 1<\/a> |\u00a0Part 2\u00a0|\u00a0Part 3<\/a><\/p>\n

\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Yesterday I began writing a response to a comment which was left by someone named Kelley on an article I wrote about Blessed\u00a0Mary (Luke 1:42). This was the comment: “‘My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.’ If Mary were sinless, why did she need a Savior? Wouldn’t she be lying? Did she realize Romans<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_crdt_document":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[28,17],"tags":[2969,448,453,20,446,2609],"class_list":["post-5955","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-apologetics","category-faith","tag-featured","tag-immaculate-conception","tag-literalism","tag-mary-the-saints","tag-sin","tag-something-about-mary"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5955","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=5955"}],"version-history":[{"count":93,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5955\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":54873,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5955\/revisions\/54873"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=5955"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=5955"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=5955"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}