{"id":18106,"date":"2013-10-04T09:00:49","date_gmt":"2013-10-04T16:00:49","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/?p=18106"},"modified":"2015-02-02T15:34:24","modified_gmt":"2015-02-02T22:34:24","slug":"empty-chairs-at-empty-altars-1","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/2013\/10\/04\/empty-chairs-at-empty-altars-1\/","title":{"rendered":"Empty Chairs At Empty Altars: Part 1"},"content":{"rendered":"

“Sedevacantists”<\/em><\/span> are people who believe that there is currently no Pope, that the “Chair of Peter” is currently empty. In fact, the name “sedevacantist”<\/em><\/span> itself comes from the Latin phrase, “sede vacante”<\/em><\/span>, which literally means “empty seat”<\/em><\/span>.<\/p>\n

Sedevacantists typically assert that there hasn’t been a valid Pope since the death of Pius XII (1958), or sometimes even since the death of Pius X (1914). They reject all the Popes which followed (John XXIII, Paul VI, John-Paul I, John-Paul II, Benedict XVI and Francis) and usually accuse them of some kind of heresy, typically the heresy of\u00a0Modernism<\/a>.<\/p>\n

At the end of last year I was contacted by a chap named Mike.\u00a0I had been commenting on a YouTube video<\/a> by Fr. Robert Barron concerning the Second Vatican Council and Mike started sending me private messages which quickly revealed his identity as a sedavacantist.<\/p>\n

\"Mike\"<\/p>\n

I decided to devote a few of posts here to my discussion with Mike. His emails were filled with large\u00a0portions of text which he had copied and pasted from his website and there was also unfortunately some name-calling (mostly against the Church, although later against myself specifically), but fortunately within the midst of all that we actually did manage to have some real conversation. It is my hope that, in reviewing our exchange, if you ever meet someone like Mike you’ll know what sort of thing to expect…<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

The Second Robber Council<\/h2>\n

Given the context of our meeting, it was unsurprising that Mike’s initial emails focused on the subject of the Second Vatican Council. He asserted that the Council was not, in fact, an\u00a0Ecumenical Council<\/a> of the Catholic Church:<\/p>\n

“The Vatican-2 heretic cult (founded in\u00a01965 at the Vatican) cannot possibly\u00a0be the Catholic Church … since it\u00a0<\/em><\/span>*enforces* the opposite, the opposite,\u00a0and the opposite of the Catholic Dogma”<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Does it make sense that Jesus would establish a Church with authority, yet would demand that every single Catholic to constantly second-guess that authority? Surely, if you trust Jesus, you should trust His\u00a0Church, right? In response to Mike’s assertion, I asked him about his feelings towards the traditional Catholic belief that God protects the Church from error. He said:<\/p>\n

“…the Holy Spirit does not\u00a0protect Satan’s vatican-2 heretic cult<\/em>\u00a0<\/em>…the\u00a0Catholic Holy Spirit only protects the\u00a0Catholic Church…”<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

It appears that Mike does believe that God protects the Catholic Church…but only as long as the Church doesn’t fall into heresy! Hmm…that’s not much protection is it? That’s about as much use as an inflatable dart board! It would be like having a parachute which only works at ground level!<\/p>\n

“You’re outta here!”<\/h2>\n

Since Mike holds the Second Vatican Council to be heretical, he concludes that anyone associated with it is automatically excommunicated:<\/span><\/p>\n

“Because of … the Catholic Dogma on\u00a0automatic excommunication for heresy or\u00a0for physical participation in a heretic\u00a0cult (such as the V-2 cult) <\/span><\/em>… we were all placed, body and soul,\u00a0outside of Christianity (the Catholic\u00a0Church)<\/span> on 8 December 1965 … the close\u00a0date of the ‘council'”<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

This doesn’t exactly speak highly of the providence of God. Mike is saying here that within a single generation the number of Catholics went from about a billion<\/strong>…to virtually none<\/strong>!\u00a0He basically asserts that the visible Church effectively ceased to be, with\u00a0the “pillar and bulwark of the truth”<\/em><\/span>\u00a0(1 Timothy 3:15<\/a>) turning to rubble, overcome by the “gates of Hell”<\/em><\/span>\u00a0(Matthew 16:18<\/a>).<\/p>\n

Given his position, I wondered what Mike thought there was left of the “true” Catholic Church. I asked him if he was in communion with anyone else:<\/p>\n

“The Catholic Church, by definition, is\u00a0those who are baptized in water and\u00a0believe the Catholic Dogma whole and\u00a0<\/em><\/span>inviolate.\u00a0<\/em><\/span>If you enter the Catholic Church someday\u00a0by making a Formal Abjuration of heresy<\/span>\u00a0, these are the ones who\u00a0<\/em><\/span>you would be in communion with”<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

So, Mike is in communion with all baptized Catholics who interpret Catholic Dogma in the same way he does and who have made a formal declaration against the “heresies” of Vatican II. Although he didn’t give any numbers, I’m guessing that the path of a sedevacantist is a lonely one.<\/p>\n

“No Sacrament for you!”<\/h2>\n

Since everyone was placed outside of the Church after Vatican II, Mike believes that there are no more Catholic priests:<\/p>\n

“… no one<\/span> on the face\u00a0of the earth has Catholic Jurisdiction\u00a0to ordain priests or consecrate bishops”<\/span>
\n<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Since there are no more priests, the sacraments therefore have effectively ceased, thus removing them from the face of the earth. As noted above, this doesn’t speak very well of the providence of God.<\/p>\n

Mike asserted that there is no longer any licit Eucharist celebrated in the world.\u00a0I pointed out that, if this were the case, wouldn’t it mean a cessation of the perfect sacrifice foretold by the Prophet Malachi?<\/p>\n

For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering<\/span>; for my name is great among the nations, says the\u00a0Lord\u00a0of hosts.<\/em>\u00a0– Maliachi 1:11<\/span><\/p>\n

In response to this Mike wrote:<\/p>\n

“The Prophet Daniel clearly says the\u00a0continuing Sacrifice will come to an end:<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

“And from the time when\u00a0the continual sacrifice shall be taken\u00a0away<\/span>, and the abomination unto\u00a0desolation shall be set up …” <\/em>– Daniel 12:11<\/span><\/p>\n

As is the case of whenever anyone interprets Scripture for me, I asked him on what grounds he makes this interpretation. What made him think that these words from Daniel refer to the Sacrifice of the New (and everlasting) Covenant?\u00a0Also, being a good Catholic, I wanted to make sure that his interpretation wasn’t novel and unfounded, so I asked whether or not he could offer an support from the Early Church Fathers concerning his interpretation. \u00a0I received no response to this line of questioning…<\/p>\n

I’ll pick this up again tomorrow.<\/p>\n

Part 1 | Part 2<\/a> | Part 3<\/a><\/p>\n

The article Empty Chairs At Empty Altars: Part 1<\/a> first appeared on RestlessPilgrim.net<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

“Sedevacantists” are people who believe that there is currently no Pope, that the “Chair of Peter” is currently empty. In fact, the name “sedevacantist” itself comes from the Latin phrase, “sede vacante”, which literally means “empty seat”. Sedevacantists typically assert that there hasn’t been a valid Pope since the death of Pius XII (1958), or sometimes even since the death<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_crdt_document":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[28,17],"tags":[2612,2969,2064],"class_list":["post-18106","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-apologetics","category-faith","tag-empty-chairs-at-empty-altars","tag-featured","tag-sedavacantist"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/18106","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=18106"}],"version-history":[{"count":46,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/18106\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":54874,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/18106\/revisions\/54874"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=18106"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=18106"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/restlesspilgrim.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=18106"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}